MISA & Bivolaru - pro si contra

Reactia Danielei Dae la critica lui Seppo Isotalo: http://jooga.meditaa...137a43aaa#13760

E o bomboana fata.


Some comments regarding the critics against the MISA yoga school formulated by Mr. Seppo Isotalo, docent in social politics

In order to be clear, we choose to preserve here in our letter the article written by Mr. Isotalo (which will be marked with Italic characters). Also we thought that like this we can punctually answer to some aspects from the mentioned article which we find inappropriate.
Quote:

Critics against the community of Romanian yoga school by Seppo Isotalo, docent in social politics
Suur-Tukholma (newspaper) has told that Romania is breaking human rights by attacking yoga school MISA`s activities. The leader of the school, Gregorian Bivolaru, has obtained protection in Sweden. Here we investigate the critics against MISA`s activities.

The collective form of living, ashram, has a central place in the activities of the Romanian yoga school. In an earlier article I wrote that ashram is needed in the East-European society where the salary can be smaller than the rent. To live in an ashram is a possibility to start, like micro loanes in the developing countries.. But ashram is a basis of yoga school even in Finland, where the situation between salary and rent is completely different.



The ashram has a central place in the activities of the Romanian yoga school as well as of most of the yoga schools around the earth. The idea of an ashram it is related to the possibility to have a place of peace and silence in the middle of the modern society, a place suitable for a spiritual practice, where an aspirant to spiritual evolution can have as well an appropriate guidance. To live in an ashram represents a possibility to combine in a harmonious and efficient way the common life and the spiritual practice. To our knowledge the people moving in the Romanian ashrams are people who could have a normal life out of such a place, and who choose instead in full awareness to be part of a spiritual community. From this perspective, the statement of Mr. Isotalo is in our opinion not reflecting the truth, giving the impression that the Romanian ashrams are nothing but a sort of intermediary place to live offered to those who cannot make a living by themselves.

In fact this first opinion will be later on corroborated with many similar ones (at least from the perspective of their accuracy) in order to build a deformed picture of the Romania yoga school.
Quote:


The life in ashrams reflects the relationship between leader and private life of people even otherwise within MISA. A sign of this is that couple relationships take place only between the people inside the school. The guru, Gregorian Bivolaru, is all over present, though he does not live in Romania. He has been missing four years a possibility to meet the thousands on people who build up a cohesive community.


The life in the ashrams it is a normal life. The aspects added by the belonging to a spiritual community are related to a daily spiritual practice, and meant to enrich life, to make it better and happier. Still, the private aspects of life remain private even when living in an ashram, therefore people decide alone about their relationships, no matter if we talk about love relationships, friendship, brotherhood, or other forms of relationships. We cannot believe that Mr. Isotalo succeed to make such an extended social study upon all the ashrams of MISA yoga school to be able to state that couple relationships happen only between people inside school. In fact it seems that the little time Mr. Isotalo spend between the yogis of MISA allowed him to draw such a conclusion not only referring to the ashrams, but to the entire school (which to our knowledge exceed for the moment 20.000 people).

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The central criticism of the MISA is that the tigh is so strong that Bivolaru is actually leading a sect. After having followed the activities of MISA during a year, I have come to the conclusion that MISA really should be considered as a sect. Yes, but one like appeared in Sweden's political life in the 1960-70. This lead to the police controlling that the sect did not act in the interest of enemies.
Dr. Karl Erik Nylund has made an analysis on four points, with the conclusion that MISA is not a dangerous sect.  


This information is not only inaccurate, but rather false. The analysis made by Dr. Nylund concluded that MISA does not fulfil the necessary conditions to be named as a sect. Therefore here Mr. Isotalo wants to confirm and even to strengthen a statement which is in fact false.

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I complete this with the impression that I got through living as close to the movement as it is possible for an outsider, in Romania, Denmark, Finland, in Sweden. I have personal contacts with the critics on the Internet and <exmisa>. I do not base on written material without intuition - although I have read many texts - for and against MISA.
The personal relationship between MISA-individuals and me - which is as an outsider – subordinated the decision of the leadership. However, I have not had a chance to take part in the relationships between people in MISA.  


To our knowledge Mr. Isotalo had visited many of the MISA facilities; he was welcome and treated with all possible attention and respect, this being in fact a simple Romanian custom. We personally met him both in Romania and Denmark, and we could observe the way he was treated. Beside this he was helped in his investigations and even helped from personal reasons, getting personal assistance and health support from the Romanian yogis. Therefore we do not understand why he wants to place himself now as an “outsider”, therefore by this inferring the idea that he was treated as one and forced to remain one. He is claiming now that he had not the chance to take part in relationships between people in MISA. It seems for us that he is now contradictory in his statements. Was him a “detached witness”, sitting completely out of MISA life, without interfering with the movement, or he was inside it, in direct and close contact with many of the yogis? Because then, in our opinion, he cannot anymore assume the “outsider” position, even complaining of not having the chance to take part in relationships.

Without wanted to be at all malicious and insinuators, we would like to ask Mr. Isolato if he tried to have “couple relationships” with people from MISA and being refused he now consider himself an outsider.


Quote:
It is an issue that the authorities in Romania have to assess, as Säpo did in Sweden with the Left wind political sect. The internal situation can be found out by having the authorities listening to people who have left the sect. Since this has to do with private matters, the authorities should keep that private from the mass media.



We do not want here to ignore or to diminish Mr. Isolato’s expertise abilities, but once more he is naming MISA a sect, a conclusion he was drawing alone, being in fact not supported by other experts (like the one mentioned previously); moreover, in his opinion the internal situation regarding MISA can be judged the best by investigating people who left the movement. Therefore such people in his opinion prove more credibility then any of those that freely choose to join the Romanian yoga school. We are invited to formulate an opinion about a certain situation by looking carefully on the few existing exceptions. We are sorry to say that we find such an advice both scientifically and humanly unreliable.


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However, Romanian authorities have committed obvious mistakes. Police action in Bucharest in 2004 had no basis and gave no evidence of the danger of MISA, but led to a huge judicial process that has been going on for years, without the slightest progress. It should be stopped. In addition, Gregorian Bivolaru should be able to live in the country where his sect is working. A conflict between Swedish and Romanian governments – both of them EU countries – about his staying place are unreasonable.


MISA as an employer.
Karmayoga combines spiritual yoga and work within a community, simply stated, the soul and the body in a learning process. Ideally, a yoga group finds an abandoned house, moves in and starts a renovation. It is not intended to achieve maximum production but that the students learn how to work in a spiritual community. In practice, yoga school is working in a free market, but violates the laws of minimum wages. Something that should deviate from what is paid for the work of the former socials countries I have not seen. The social conditions for people coming from Romania to participate in karmayoga in Copenhagen is better than those of the other grey workforce.
Life after the construction have been completed or after the students have learned karmayoga is neglected in the MISA. It is perhaps better to perceive karmayoga only as a learning process, which gives strength to enter the labour market.  



Karma yoga it is a millenary yoga system, possibly as old as any other yoga system. The aim of this system is the common aim of any yoga and true spiritual system, the spiritual accomplishment, spiritual salvation. It is not only about fixing an abandoned house (by the way, most of the ashrams are houses which weren’t found as abandoned, but the yogis were buying them and afterwards renovating and sharing them with others as ashrams) Therefore it is inappropriate to talk about “after learning karma yoga”, as such a system, being a spiritual path, tends to coincide with the life of its practitioner to the complete overlapping, going together until reaching the spiritual perfection. The aim of any spiritual school is to lead its students to the state of spiritual accomplishment, considering that after attaining such a level one can decide in full awareness the direction of his/her life. The karma yoga system is not at all a system build ad-hoc by some occidentals in order to find a way to enter the labour market in a sort of “pseudo black-work” (maybe with a bit better living conditions, as Mr. Isotalo wants to suggest us). It is a system highly appreciated in the oriental part of the world (to mention here the wonderful example of Gandhi and of Mother Tereza) for its efficiency and which we deeply believe it can be implemented as well in the western society.

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The sexual criticism in the media is sensation seeking. The most enthusiastic criticism comes from former MISA-participants, and visit the <www>
Three topics are recurrent.
1. Erotic movies.
2. Dance groups travelling to Japan
3. The supply of young ladies to Bivolaru in Sweden.
I have had long talks with Cecilia Tiz and shorter with the Gregorian from Constanta, met with the administrator of <exmisa>, Dan, along with Monika and her husband. In addition, I received an e-mail from Vienna, written by a Bio scientist, but I have not been able to talk to him so that I could know that the mail actually came from the biologist.

Dan gave me four erotic films in which MISA's people are acting. To their advantage they differ from the films of porno industry. MISA's people show their erotic activities. It is unlikely that these films were produced by profit purposes. The market pays for a different type of material. In the films is shown intercourse by MISA's leader Mihai Stoian with his wife as actress. Even an other couple appear. Sex between the two ladies, who are both talented actress is shown. Three of the films show only women in erotic activities. They are boring – not commercial but not educational either, because they do not demonstrate the idea behind eroticism. One of the films show urinary orgasm, but not how it is produced.


It is interesting for us to notice that Mr. Isotalo has a much wider area of expertise than his docent title might suggest us. Not only that he seems a good knower of the porno industry market (from both financial and quality perspective) but he seems to have a worth opinion upon the educative aspects of these movies. Letting aside the ability of expertise of Mr. Isotalo, we have to notice his clear interest towards eroticism, manifested here in a more obvious way than previously when he was just “studying” the couple relationships within MISA being still an “outsider”.

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Dance groups to Japan has been arranged through a company Extaz. Romanian girls, some of them from yoga school, has signed contracts with the company and danced in Japan. Something to discuss about is the preparation and trip expenses sharing between the company and dancers. Payment in Japan goes to the company, which pays according to the contract to the girls. The activity has not been a great economic success for MISA. The girls could have for sure been able to earn better in a commercially experienced enterprises.  


Here we need to remind Mr. Isotalo that despite long lasting and quite heavily instrumented trials on-going now in Romania against MISA, such a direct connection he is stating here – namely that Romanian girls working for Extaz company were providing MISA with money (without a great economic success...) – was never proved, but rather just persuaded. We come to ask ourselves if it can be that Mr. Isolato has valuable information that for the moment Romanian Justice does not have. Again, in our opinion, Mr. Isotalo is a little bit over-zealous, formulating unsustainable statements against MISA, even if hidden under the mask of an apparently equanimity. Why all these little “miss-placements” if your intention was only to put out a truth-reflecting report, Mr. Isotalo?

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According to the existing criticism Bivolaru needs young ladies in his exile. I do not believe this at all. Bivolaru is hiding, which would be impossible if there was a continuous flow of girls delivered. I have not met any young lady who has made visit in Sweden. When you ask MISA's girls about this, they would like to join the next delivery.  


In order to show that what we mentioned before it is not just a way to attack Mr. Isolato, but a simple analysis of his report, here we have probably the clearest proof. Mr. Isolato states that the flow of girls towards Mr. Bivolaru cannot exist, and he himself didn’t meet any such young lady in Sweden. Then in the very next line he is writing: “When you ask MISA's girls about this, they would like to join the next delivery”. But this is so clearly suggesting that in fact such a flow exists, as MISA’s girls wants to join the next delivery. So which is in fact your true opinion about this, Mr. Isotalo? And if your opinion is clear that such a flow could and does not exist, then why your last phrase is in fact so obviously insinuating it? Not to mention that once more you place yourself in the position of knowing all MISA women’s opinion. We wonder in fact how many of such young girls you have truly asked, and even here, what was your intention when doing it?

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Continued on page 4
Seppo Isotalo
Criticism against the Romanian ... continued from page 3
I consider that all these points of criticisms are marginal in the assessment of MISA's activities. They are a way to let the free sexuality meet a market. It is clear that all yoga practitioners do not accept them.
Moral viewpoints
Bivolaru has created a new culture of sexual life. It is richer than normal. The core point is man's multiple orgasm without ejaculation. Mental training is directed, however, for the woman to liberate herself. Some succeed in this, but not everybody.
According to the common norms sex life should stay in the marriage, but it does not work in practice. Bivolaru makes a virtue of what the norms say being prohibited. This applies in a first place to the quality of sex life .. A couple should feel wonderful together.  


We had attained many conferences and lectures held by Mr. Bivolaru, while to our knowledge Mr. Isotalo didn’t. In all the lectures in which the subject “eroticism” came out, Mr. Bivolaru was strongly recommending that for a spiritual seeker sexuality is only (if clearly and in full awareness decided) a tool, and this always respecting Brahmacharia, one of the basic ethical and moral rules (known in yoga as Yama and Niyama). The complete control of the sexual impulses is for sure an important point during any spiritual path (no matter if we consider abstinence or if we consider having an active sexual life based on sexual continence), and out of this idea such a subject like the erotic life is not at all out of question when talking about spirituality. Even pleading for a richer sexual life does not necessarily looks peculiar. But from here, to make a virtue out of sexual norms which are prohibited by society, the distance is very large. And especially coming from a person who never attended live a lecture held by Mr. Bivolaru, it might sounds even tendentiously.

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Bivolaru doesn't, however, stop in the couple relationships. It is his opinion that spiritual sex life have a quality, which exceeds the limits, enclosing the normal sex life. In the case that deep love appears you can have spiritual sex with several people within the MISA community.


Without wanting to substitute myself with Mr. Bivolaru, or to put out opinions on his behalf, he is constantly talking about making love and not about having sex, even if pretended to be “spiritual”. Also, once more we are seeing here the already redundant argument of having spiritual sex with several people within the MISA community, therefore clearly suggesting that the Romanian yogis from MISA are strongly recommended (if not even imposed) to only have sex between each others. Is it Mr. Bivolaru promoting a free sexual life, as you stated before, even making a virtue of what the norms say being prohibited, or on the contrary he is restricting people’s freedom by only allowing sex between the members of the movement? We find you once more contradicting yourself in just about few written lines. Mr. Isotalo, allow us to ask you a personal question: did you try to have sex with someone from MISA and you have been refused? Please accept in advance our apologises if such a question makes completely no sense, but your contradictory and confusing way of reporting can only suggest us that you draw such conclusions not based on true and appropriate observation, but on personal issues, of which we don’t want to insist here, being a private matter.

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The free approach to eroticism provides the opportunity to do Porno films and dance in return for payment in Japan. These are two attempts to obtain money besides that building of own homes and producing natural medicine give. Under the economic conditions prevailing in ex-communistic Romania one can not be so strict about how to get money.
Criticism against the Romanian ... continued from page 3
For me – as an outsider- do not have any moral thoughts about MISA's sexual activities. A free and technically good sex should be permitted.  


Once more Mr. Isotalo is formulating strong statements regarding the money obtained by MISA. Previously he was insuring us that neither the porn movies nor the dancing in Japan were worth from the financial perspective; now these two are indicated as modalities to obtain money in MISA (still not proved from the judicial perspective... but Mr. Isotalo knows better). And we are suggested to have mercy; in a poor country like Romania we shall not expect people to have strong and righteous moral and ethical principles. In this very moment we sincerely doubt your moral and ethical principles, Mr. Isotalo. In fact you tell us you do not have any moral thoughts about MISA's sexual activities. Maybe the sense of this phrase is doubtful, as we are no English native speakers; but the way it came out (even if by accident) might still reflect your true intentions.

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Male pigs
Life in MISA equals to men's dream of free sex with many women. Sometimes, this is done openly, sometimes hiding it, as it fits .. For women, the question is problematic. Some acquire the male sexual drive, but it limits intercourse to men to whom they feel deep love for.
A special chapter is male teachers, who practice their "deep love" with their students. I find no difference to the ordinary male pigs who use their position of power to an unbalanced sex life. I use the quotation marks for the deep love only here. In sex life within MISA they generally take into account high ethical principles. The technique provides a good opportunity for spiritual sex.


And if before we were having doubts if your intention is immoral or not, here you succeed to prove it is. Even if the behaviour of some individuals which are part of the MISA school might be wrong and not respecting moral and ethical principles, to call the men that are students or teachers in MISA male pigs is outrageous, shocking, and disgraceful. This in our opinion disqualifies you, Mr. Isotalo, and does not fit with your docent title, to your respectable age, and even less to your social and professional position. If during reading this article we could sometimes still wonder about your intentions while writing it, the way you ended clearly confirms what we could only suspect in the beginning. It seems to us that you are now animated by feelings of hatred and frustration, and that you want your revenge. You build up an article which under the mask of a supposed objectivity is formulating and insinuating many accuses against MISA, all of them being unproved and un-sustained, meant just to raise lots of doubts in those reading it. Without needing too much of a judgement capacity, we can easily reckon on your language all the dirty accuses which are performed on the anti-MISA web-sites, together with their disgusting language. I think we shall mention here that you admitted to have had long talks to a person previously you were calling “crazy”; and forgive us if we won’t use names here, as we do not intend now to use your words in order to denigrate somebody. What remains for us is to ask if all these are a result of your own judgement, or if you (like some others which now spend their time and energy only for denigrating MISA – with whom you admitted to spend many long talks) are playing a game set up by other people and interests.

MISA
On behalf of NATHA Finland, Daniela Dae





Another aspect which in the case of Mr Isotalo is reflecting
why frustration leads to revenge

In yoga we use to focus on people's qualities and bright parts. That became our nature. In the Wild West, they use to shoot first and then to ask "who are you and what do you want?"
In Yoga, we welcome guests and ask them how we can help them. That was also the case of Seppo Isotalo.
When he first came closer to our yoga school he manifested curiosity and wanted to know us better. He was working on a study about our yoga school as the representative of the OSCE-NGO and asked for our openness and transparency in order to build his study as close to the truth as possible.
As we have nothing to hide and always welcome guests, we granted him full and absolutely for free access to activities of the yoga school, including classes, camps, seminars and parties.
He presented himself as one that "wants the truth to come out" and to prove that the Yoga School was wrongfully accused in Romania, because this is his final conclusion, he said.
Beside our yoga school, he also studied the anti-MISA sites and Forums and we were surprised to hear his opinion about them: he said first that the person leading all this game and signing up the articles is in need for psychiatric treatment, and after some time that the texts look like they are written by "disappointed" ex-MISA members; in reality it is so obvious that behind them there is the Romanian Secret Police, who always hated Yoga. And that the texts are written by secret police officers, experts in mass-media manipulation, and that the Romanian Securitate, or SRI is actually a criminal organisation!
Then he stated that he knows some methods to unmask them and to make them truly respect the fundamental human rights of freedom of the mind and expression.
Soon after, during the Finnish Summer-Solstice Camp, in one afternoon while talking together in a little office about his beneficial intentions, he revealed to me one of his "methods". He said that he consider that it would be a good idea if members of your school will have the possibility to take part to mundane high-society parties, where they could get in touch with very important and influent persons that would eventually offer their help.

For me it sounds like a not-so-Yogi way of acting, it sounded more like a political game.
But the weird part was just at its beginning. Very soon after that, along the conversation, he invited me to such a party in Stockholm, which in fact was the marriage-party of one of his friends. And he asked me to join him at the party and to present myself as being his PARTNER.

Well, I was very surprised, mainly about the proposal of being his partner, I was expecting that he, as an honest man in his 72 years old and the representative of his organisation, in the above situation will ask me to join him and to present myself as being the representative of the Finish yoga school, or at worst as a FRIEND… If we were to became friends for real until that moment…because I was treating and considering him as the representative of his Human Rights Organisation.
In the first moment I thought that maybe he is having difficulties in finding his words, as he is not a native English speaker. But my common sense told me that FRIENDSHIP is an essential English word, which cannot be confused with PARTNERSHIP.
My feeling, that it is not right to be like this and is not an honourable invitation, was enforced by another fact. If we were about to attend a press-conference or a business meeting, I could have played the role of a business-partner. But when going to a friend’s wedding, where people go in couples, eat and dance, and he intends to introduce me as his PARTNER, what kind of PARTNER could I represent in their eyes?
I never saw people going to weddings with their business-partners, certainly not.
According to my principles in life, a love relationship is a matter of deep respect, consideration, time offered for knowing each other, time in which the love can blossom. Else it is only about sexual desire.
It was simply making me feel that I am sexually harassed by his intentions and words, completely under my dignity.
So I politely refused him, while suspicious bells about him were ringing in my ears.
Soon I heard, in a direct dialogue with other persons facing this situation, that other young women were sexually harassed by him.
In all this similar situations, he was definitely not searching for the whole, I mean for love which can in a normal way lead to harmonious erotic interaction between the two people loving each other.

Indeed nobody offered him sex. But I have to say that it is obvious it was him desperately looking for it.
And because it is not in accordance with our principles to offer sex, he did not get what he wanted. Moreover, he was not behaving like an official studying the yoga organisation for a Human Rights Report, but he was just taking advantage of all the free of charge events he received and was running actually a personal agenda.
A human being that has self-respect and common sense will never accept this kind of behaviour. Yogis are always good-hearted but they are never stupid.

On behalf of Natha Finland, Daniela Dae

 Deria_Leena26, on Sep 22 2008, 22:25, said:

Ce "stil" pot sa aiba unii.
Tipul a facut presiuni mari din postura de membru OSCE asupra autoritatilor romane pentru ca instructorii MISA acuzati sa se bucure de un proces cinstit si in schimb e rasplatit cu acuzatii de hartuire sexuala.   
Morala: Cine ii ajuta cu ceva, orice, e un fraier, pentru ca la prima neintelegere nu vor ezita sa arunce cu noroi.

 Cirmaciul, on Sep 23 2008, 08:12, said:

Pai e cum zicea Omul Negru pe alt forum: daca nu esti violator, ca Narcis, securist, ca si Claudiu, francmason, ca Ajita, membru al serviciilor secrete, ca si Cecilia, atunci esti... frustrat sexual, ca asta a mai ramas...

 Deria_Leena26, on Sep 23 2008, 10:12, said:

Nu e asa. Unii pot fi toate acestea la un loc.

Edited by adiere, 23 September 2008 - 12:19.

 Deria_Leena26, on Sep 22 2008, 11:28, said:

Esti cam dura . Daca am o putzulica de 1 cm ce sa fac cu una care are curul de 100 de cm ?

Sa stii ca asta este un forum de limba romana . Te rog sa pui si traducerea in limba romana . Ma simt prost (adica nasol) si discriminat ca nu inteleg despre ce vorbiti . Ce sa-i faci ? La creierii mei de bou n-a incaput engleza . Poate vrei tu sa ma meditezi la engleza sa fiu si eu istet ca tine . Te platesc , iti dau 25 de lei pe ora sau vrei sa negociem ?

Edited by jedibenefic, 23 September 2008 - 15:14.

 icsoc, on Sep 21 2008, 13:38, said:

Lasa, ca n-au intrat zilele in sac ! Nu se stie niciodata....

jedi, uite un ultra-rezumat:

Cred ca stii ca Seppo Isotalo sustinea MISA. Acum si-a schimbat parerea, si-a dat seama ca a fost mintit in fata si a scris o critica nu foarte usturatoare la adresa MISA. Motiv pentru care Daniela Dae, conducatoarea Natha Finlanda, s-a maniat rau de tot, l-a porcait si l-a facut... obsedat sexual. A, si nu a uitat sa mentioneze ca forumurile ex_MISA sunt sub comanda organizatiei criminale Serviciile Secrete Romane.

Chiar n-am timp sa fac traducerea integrala acum... Poate pe sfarsitul saptamanii...

Revin cu o idee despre care am mai vorbit de mai multe ori, pe diferite site-uri! Fetele care sunt trimise sa danseze in diverse baruri, in special cele din Europa,  se expun, inconstient, si unui MARE PERICOL!

Las la o parte faptul ca nu este nimic spiritual in a dansa prin baruri, ori a participa la orice fel de activitate tipica industriei de profil!!!

MARELE PERICOL la care se expun este acela ca, aproape toate aceste baruri sunt frecventate de mafioti de tot felul, iar acestia nu stau la discutii daca o fata le cade cu tronc.
Nu mai vorbim de faptul ca acesti mafioti sunt mana in mana cu politia locala si de aceea ei nu sunt deloc obisnuiti sa accepte refuzuri.

De altfel, daca o sa cititi statisticile politiilor europene privitor la traficul de carne vie, o sa vedeti ca cele mai multe fete traficate au inceput cu dansatul la bara, apoi rapire cu sechestrare, violuri si prostitutie fortata. Cele norocoase au scapat si au povestit....

Nu stiu cum sa fac, dar as repeta acest mesaj pe toate site-urile posibile, pana cand el ajunge la toate urechile si inimile fetelor care se lasa prinse, din diverse motive, in aceasta hora a nebuniei travestita in spiritualitate tantrica!!!

 krm, on Sep 23 2008, 11:36, said:

Poti re repeti asta, pana iti tocesti tastele, ca tot degeaba ! Protectia maestrului, si implicit a divinitatii, e mai tare decat orice mafiot si orice pericol ! nimic nu le poate atinge, pt ca au mana lui d-zeu deasupra capului ...

Maestrul asta, de cat o are ?

Am o intrebare . Proprietarii de ashramuri au facut testamente la notariat ca dupa ce dau coltul , asta in cazul ca sunt muritori , lasa ashramurile fundatiei MISA ? Cu avocati yoghini desemnati special care dupa deces sa faca succesiunea proprietatii conform testamentelor ? Daca o mierleste un proprietar de ashram si nu are testamentul facut si rudele de gradul 1 , daca sunt anti yoga , anti curs si anti ashramisti , daca se pomenesc peste noapte proprietari de ashramuri si daca le vand ce vor face noii proprietari cu ashramistii? Dar daca noii proprietari vor deveni si ei ashramisti ?

Edited by jedibenefic, 24 September 2008 - 03:35.

 askey, on Sep 24 2008, 04:23, said:

De ce mai, vrei sa te initieze si pe tine? Si asa primeste fetitele cu portia, vrei sa te initieze mai baietel?
Pentru cei care vor vedea conferintele de deschidere, multa bafta. Le urez sa participe si sa se duca la curs, la orice alt curs: de arte martiale, de dans, de estetica, de sah.   Daca insa ei doresc sa faca gimnastica yoga si sa aiba parte de relatii polimorfe cu multe transmiteri initiatice, sa se duca la cursurile MISA. Este autentic ca daca nu se vor proteja, vor lua boli cu transmitere initiatica.
Am uitat sa ma prezint. Sunt un practicant de arte frumoase, intitiat in toate disciplinele esoterice. Am si cabinet psihologic, unde se intra pe baza de legitimatie de transa. Citesc acest forum de cateva luni de zile si cel mai mult dintre cei "pro-Misa" il apreciez pe lamaesoteric. Cu siguranta ca a atins cele mai inalte culmi ale realizarii integrarii in absolut nimic. Insa din cand in cand, ne impartaseste noua, muritorilor de rand, puncte de vedere echidistante astefel incat sa fim indrumati ortoepic cat mai departe de MISA.

Edited by arasel, 24 September 2008 - 08:32.

 arasel, on Sep 24 2008, 09:15, said:

Aracel, era o pura curiozitate masculina.

Apropo, tu de cat o ai ? Dupa nick e subtirica si verde. E sau nu e ?

 jedibenefic, on Sep 24 2008, 04:32, said:

In sfarsit abordezi si tu un subiect serios.
Acum un an s-a discutat pe tema asta in alta parte cu un user despre care se spune ca ar fi fost chiar Nicu, shivaitul shef. Nu stiu daca era el sau nu, insa cand a fost intrebat de problema asta, userul ala a raspuns ceva de genul "da, intr-adevar asta ar putea fi o posibila problema serioasa, dar avem incredere in Grieg ca va gasi o solutie pentru ea atunci cand va fi nevoie". Adica din raspunsul ala se cam intelegea faptul ca la vremea respectiva nu isi pusesera inca in mod serios problema si asteptau ca G sa vina cu vreo decizie in privinta asta.
Si cum G e mai tot timpul ocupat cu alte chestii, stii tu cam de care, eu banuiesc ca nu s-a rezolvat nimic inca in directia asta.
Intreaba-i insa mai bine pe cei care se ocupa de administrarea ashramurilor. Ei ar trebui sa stie amanunte din astea.

Edited by Cirmaciul, 24 September 2008 - 08:39.

 askey, on Sep 24 2008, 09:25, said:

Verde? Iti plac cruditatile aliene? Verde o fac daca vrei tu. Sa imi pun nick Vitzelaru? Poate reconsideri dimensiunea fularului ? Dupa nick cred ca iti plac bomboanele, vorba lui becali ... Ce curiozitate masculina e asta? Tu nu ai vazut filme cu negri? Sau ti s-a facut de bombonele?   Te invit sa o ingrosi tu, mai, sa aplici acele miscari de la cursul de vira. Ai grija sa nu te stropeasca. Poate atunci o sa pocesti nickul in aracet.

Edited by arasel, 24 September 2008 - 08:47.

 krm, on Sep 23 2008, 21:36, said:

Ai mare dreptate, numai ca shaktiurile nu prea baga in seama astfel de avertismente. S-a tot scris despre chestiile astea de peste trei ani de zile si multe femei continua sa faca drumuri spre diferite destinatii mai mult sau mai putin exotice.
Iar daca o patesc si vin pe aici sa se planga, celelalte nu or sa le bage in seama, posibil pe motiv ca ar fi "naufragiate" din punct de vedere spiritual sau ca ar fi platite de SRI sa denigreze miscarea si alte bla bla-uri.
Ar trebui sa cunosti deja foarte bine situatia.
Ce te-a facut sa devii atat de afectat de situatie in momentul de fata? Ai aflat ceva nou despre un caz particular si asta te-a afectat personal cumva?

krm e un cursant MISA. Cand aceste avertismente vin din interiorul Miscarii se dovedesc cel putin doua aspecte: ca exista oameni care nu s-au spalat cu Ariel (da, se da nickul meu peste cap) la creieras si ca in interiorul miscarii aceste sfaturi sunt total ignorate. Nu am nimic impotriva acestor fete, cum nu am nimic impotriva prostituatelor de pe lumea aceasta. Dar o avea omul o misiune de salvare planetara si s-a gandit ca din 6 miliarde de oameni cateva shaktoze se vor indruma pe cale spre iesirea din cercul de prostitutie MISA. Eu zic ca nimic nu o sa le schimbe gandirea fetelor, nici daca se da la televizor un caz concret gen "o dansatoare la bara in Japonia, membra MISA, a fost ucisa cu sange rece de un mafiot japonez in apropierea barului in care tipa facea karma yoga". Vorba ceea "karma ei". Increderea in sustinerea subtila a maistrului instalator este prea mare ca sa fie zdruncinata de realitatea manipulata de mass-media.
In plus, krm nu zice "fetele de la MISA care... " deci din puctul asta de vedere e obiectiv. Avertismentul lui nu se refera la shaktoze in mod direct, ci include piata si traficul de carne vie, in care, intre noi fie vorba, shaktozele astea ocupa un procent infim.

Edited by arasel, 24 September 2008 - 09:00.

 arasel, on Sep 24 2008, 09:40, said:

Bine bai cruditate neinceputa, stai pe aproape pana se face porumbul. Pentru ca la cele 3 posturi ale tale nici mantra nu-ti deschide gura cum trebuie.