English Practice

Stars, on Jul 12 2005, 12:53, said:

nu e neaparat gresit in contextul de fata deorece se refera la vointa cuiva de a face ceva... folosirea lui "would" in acest caz este o exprimare mai politicoasa si este corect... mai este o exceptie cu "should" dupa if care se foloseste atunci cand e vorba e o posibilitate foarte mica... sar traduce aprox. "in eventualitatea in care" si este echivalentul lui "Should you ... "

dar astea sunt exceptii.. atentie mare... in mod normal, intr-adevar se foloseste trecutul pt. conditional...

Penn, on Jul 12 2005, 16:28, said:

nu e bine sa amesteci prezent perfect cu simple past in propozitiile subordonate cand vorbesti de aceeasi actiune... ori.. ori... (exista si exceptii, dar alea sunt altceva)... in fuctie de situatie,daca actiunea e incheiata, folosesti doar "past"... "you corected"

"the rule" trebuie sa aiba un "of" dupa... adica  "the rule of not using"...

Mosotti, on Jul 12 2005, 17:17, said:

da.

<< nu e bine sa amesteci prezent perfect cu simple past in propozitiile subordonate cand vorbesti de aceeasi actiune... ori.. ori... (exista si exceptii, dar alea sunt altceva)... in fuctie de situatie,daca actiunea e incheiata, folosesti doar "past"... "you corected" >>

First of all, thank you for the corrections gtk. I must admit that I got in a little bit of a hurry when having posted the replies.
Secondly, your observation <<folosesti doar "past".."you corrected">> wasn't 100% correct because the original statement was "It felt really good that you've corrected" ... So he felt good AFTED I had made the action, and we have to be careful how we use the sequence of tenses (concordantza timpurilor), so as to express the anteriority of the action. Therefore, the correct sentence would have been " It felt really good that you had corrected.." ["felt" is present simple, so the speaker would have been obliged to go way back in time to express anteriority of action].
The sequence of tenses is a pretty tricky part of English for most learners. It is difficult to master it because Romanian is more flexible and doesn't require different tenses to express anteriority.
Example: "Am cumparat masina dupa ce am vazut-o" - am cumparat is the same tense as am vazut, but the reader feels the anteriority because of the "dupa ce". Whereas in English the sentence must look like this: "I bought the car after I had seen it" - you see that "bought" isn't the same tense as "had seen", because "after" isn't enough to express the anteriority aspect.  
If I wasn't explicit enough,  it is because it's late and I'm dead tired .. but we can discuss more about the sequence of tenses if you guys are interested.

PS: gtk, I intended to make this thread a tool for English Practice. So I have to ask you to please express yourself in English even if you are bound to make mistakes. No one asks you to master the Academic English

Edited by Stars, 12 July 2005 - 23:39.

Stars, on Jul 12 2005, 12:09, said:

"I taught for a full semester in college practice". (Am predat un semestru intreg in timpul practicii pedagogice - correct)
"...and I hated IT ("S" - wrong letter, I was tired ) every single day I went to do it" (si am urat-o in fiecare zi in care am fost sa o fac - correct sequence of tenses)
"because it is the most boring job on the planet" (the statement is a general observation, therefore I am allowed to use the present tense, even if the rest of the statement uses past tense)

edit: I forgot to mention, this is a reply to one of GTK's posts

Edited by Stars, 12 July 2005 - 23:33.

I have an advice for you guys. Anyone with a medium English vocabulary has to concentrate on completing his vocabulary knowledge with a good grammatical one. And if you want to speak correctly, my advice would be to learn very well the types of conditionals and the sequence of tenses. If there are persons interested in being explained these two segments of English Language, do not hesitate to ask.
My argument in favour of the above would be a job interview at a Customer Support Centre that I've attended. I was given a test in which, among vocabulary issues and knowledge testing, I had to deal with conditionals and sequence of tenses. Someone later explained me that these two are crucial for a good communication in English. Not knowing them can bring about trouble. So anyone who plans on leaving for England in the near future, get your ass in the library

Stars, on Jul 13 2005, 00:20, said:

In acest caz nu se schimba timpurile precum in cazul vorbirii indirecte (Reported Speech)... revin cu detalii teoretice daca vrei... pe scurt: daca ai fi spus ceva de genul am spus/mi-a spus: I told you it felt good that you had corrected... se aplica schimbarea de care vorbesti... deci e nevie de un element din care sa rezulte ca o actiune din prezent se leaga de una din trecut care la randul ei se leaga de una si mai din trecut...

Cred ca ar fi o idee buna totusi sa dam explicatiile la corecturi in limba romana... nu toata lumea stie engleza foarte bine...

gtk, on Jul 12 2005, 23:57, said:

If we start talking in Romanian, no one will bother to write anything in English. But I can;t force you to do anything so..your choice. Now, about what you said: you are wrong. The sequence of tenses isn't used only in reported speech. Let me explain it:
   The way I understood the statement "It felt good that you've corrected..." is that the speaker felt good about something upon realising that the action had already been done and finished. If he had been there at the time of the correction, it would have been possible for him to say "It felt good that you corrected...", but he noticed the "correction" later on, so I think you are wrong

edit: I think a "Sequence of Tenses Chart" along with some explanations and simple rules would settle this debate and be very useful for whoever will be reading this thread.

Edited by Stars, 13 July 2005 - 00:23.

Stars, on Jul 13 2005, 00:29, said:

1. daca vrei sa zici "in timpul" ar trebui sa folosesti "during"... "to teach...  + in ..." in seamna a preda intr-un anumit loc incapere/tara, etc. sau intr-un anumit deomeniu...

2. prezentul in cazul respectiv se foloseste pt. adevarurile general valabile... de ex. fenomene naturale

cred ca n-ai inteles... fa un experiment: incearca sa gasesti pe google "it felt good that you had"..
dupa had ar merge orice verb(e vorba de past perfect), iar "it felt good" e o expresie...
ar trebui sa gasesti multe exemple... well, guess what?  

gtk, on Jul 13 2005, 00:18, said:

1. Yes, you are right, the best choice would have been "I taught during college practice", but I think i can use the "in" preposition also, but only in certain conditions. I'm currently thinking of an example, "I worked as a bartender in college". For this sentence to express the location of my job, I must use a correct place indicator, other than the simple "in" (which was used here as a time indicator). So I would have said "I worked as a bartender AT THE/IN THE/ college".

2. The statement began using the past tense "I hated it because it is the worst job in the world". The second part is an observation with the value of a general truth. If I had used past tense, that would have meant that was my opinion at the time. But by using the present tense I expressed the fact that the opinion still exists, it is a general observation with no time-limit.

gtk, on Jul 13 2005, 00:24, said:

Looking at the problem this way, you still aren't right because "to feel good" requires an infinitive form of the verb, or the gerund. So "It felt good that you corrected" [totally wrong]. Usually, you use this expression when reffering to an action that you've done yourself, not another person. (It felt good to go/see/leave/correct/etc.) But when you want to use the expression when reffering to an action that was done by someone else, you resort to Reported Speech.
A much better choice would have been "It felt good to have been corrected", but please note that the sequence of tences requires that "felt" isn't at the same tense as "have been corrected", and this for the reason that anteriority must be expressed in the tenses of the verbs, not only in the use of different kind of conjunctions.

1. daca vrei sa folosesti "in" pt a te referi la o perioda de timp in care ai facut ceva ai putea sa folosesti o constructie de tipul "in my college days/years"...

2. an observation of ... problema este ca ceea la ce te referi (the worst job in the world) e departe de a fi "a general truth"... din contra e ceva cat se poate de subiectiv (biased) pt. ca fiecare persoana considera alt job ca fiind "the worst"...

Stars, on Jul 13 2005, 01:38, said:

"I worked as a bartender in college".
Not 100 % sure since this is british    but i think it would sound more natural something like " Thru college i worked as a bartender".
My 2 cents anyway  
Oh yeah, i believe that using "in" as in " worked in college" it's the american way to say it. Brits could do it differently so it's possible that "at" could be the proper way to say it  

Edited by active95, 13 July 2005 - 02:52.

active95, ce zici de aia cu "it felt good that.."? ... eu nu prea am dat de expresia asta...

Edited by gtk, 13 July 2005 - 02:57.

gtk vb strict de americana ( EB sau BE sincer nu o cunosc )
it felt good when you .... ar fi mai corect.
De asemenea "i think this is a boring as well..." ar fi mai corect de genul " i think it's boring as well" (deja interlocutorul stie ca vb despre discutia prezenta )
Penn nu aduc nici un fel de critica, pe undeva "capcana" este prin felul de "traducere"
exemplu : "it felt good that "---" it felt good CA tu mai corectat ( corect in romana ) vs " it felt good CIND tu mai corectat"(corect in americana).
Nu inseamna ca interlocutorul nu va intelege ce ai vrut sa spui, nu nu, doar ca ptr o secunda i se va parea ciudat

este It felt good that u had corrected...bla bla....clar ca buna ziua
It felt good that u corrected    NO WAY DUDE

at gtk, de ce mi-ai sters postul?  era in sensul de gluma...  

P.S. diferentele intre engl americana si cea britanica , adica diferentele mari sunt la nivel de vocabular, expresii nicidecum la gramatica...adica sunt si acolo dar prapastia mare e la vocabular .

Am uitat sa dau si explicatia   :prima data m-a corectat si deabia apoi m-am simtit bine-deci e clar past perfect (trust me    )  Iar past simple plus present perfect iarasi NO WAY. Daca era present tense plus present perfect era ok. Dar asa diferenta de timp e prea mare si e gresit.

Edited by StormRider, 13 July 2005 - 03:39.

Stars, on Jul 13 2005, 00:38, said:

What you say it's true in an academic sort of way, but you won't hear anybody say it like that. You break the flow of the story when you change the tenses so abruptly. "I hated it because it was the worst job in the world". Much better.

And one more thing:

Quote

"explained to me". You either explain something or you just explain. You don't explain somebody. Well, you could, but that's not what you meant. Nobody can explain you.  

Edited by gniv, 13 July 2005 - 07:07.

Interesting posts
I promise I'll give my answers after I get back from work. Bye people

active95, on Jul 12 2005, 17:49, said:

nice college - featuring a bar... hehehehe where's that at?

ok dude, let me get it right...

1. did the college had a bar (at the cafeteria of course ) and u were emplyed there?
2. while attending college, u were working at a local bar?
3. bar's name was "College" ?