Criza economica globala

StrutZz, on May 6 2009, 23:31, said:

Muhahaha

flaviand, on May 5 2009, 01:15, said:

De virusi nu ai auzit sau vrei sa fii cinic, oameni sufera de boala si tu mesteci manipulari ? In fiecare an suntem "manipulati" de gripa, pana acum forme decente. Peste 40 morti oficiali deja btw. De asta ce mai zici ?

http://www.nytimes.c...;pagewanted=all

"But Smithfield found it hard to overcome fallout from the swine fever outbreak that struck Cenei. At the time, hog corpses lay in heaps, and residents remember chaotic efforts to shoot and burn them. That particular strain affects only hogs, but scientists have found elements of swine viruses ? one from Europe or Asia, the other from North America ? in the genetic code of the new influenza A(H1N1) virus.

When Ioan Ciprian Ciurdar, deputy mayor of Cenei, said that the stench from nearby farms was overpowering, Smithfield responded that a heat wave was to blame.

Mr. Ciurdar said that he had visited the farm with a colleague who snapped photographs until a security guard demanded the camera and destroyed the pictures. ?If you?re an owner,? he said, his voice rising, ?it doesn?t mean you can do whatever you want.?

Smithfield contends that ?it is impossible to know? why the pigs got sick, while noting a breakdown in the supply of government-supplied swine flu vaccines."

StrutZz, on May 6 2009, 23:31, said:

Au mai zis si altii, mai lasati biblia interpretata fanatic si hai pe stiinta totusi, nu mai faceti valuri in pahare ca nu se intampla oricum nimic, nu moare nimeni, nu cade civilizatia, raman pe afara inadaptatii, atata tot

Edited by andreic, 07 May 2009 - 01:59.

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Varianta originala era: "Prepare for the worst, hope for the best". Nici eu nu vreau sa panichez pe nimeni, dar nici sa dorm in papuci inghitind tot ce mi se serveste la tembelizor...

Nea andrei, referitor la mainpulari si gripa, incearca sa faci diferenta intre lucrurile care ar trebui sa ne intereseze cu adevarat si cele folosite doar pentru a ocupa primele pagini ale ziarelor, in timp ce adevaratele stiri sunt trecute in umbra. Incearca de asemenea sa faci diferenta intre 2 lucruri:

1- teama nejustificata fata de un colaps economic care de fapt va avea loc, dar la final va avea efecte benefice pentru majoritatea oamenilor

2 - teama nejustificata fata de o "pandemie" care nu va avea loc, dar care ar putea cauza niste efecte extrem de negative asupra populatiei

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Varianta corecta era: se va scimba aproape totul, de murit nu vor muri decat inadaptatii, iar omenirea salbaticita de acum va deveni cu adevarat o civilizatie

Edited by flaviand, 07 May 2009 - 08:25.

flaviand, on May 7 2009, 09:05, said:

E un punct de vedere, eu raman la ideea conservatoare.

Mda, vom vedea in final care din variante este cea adevarata.

Pana atunci recomand cui vrea sa priceapa adevarul din spatele campaniilor din ultimele zile de la tembelizor, care trag tare cu reducerea dobanzilor si cu "relansarea creditarii". Asta dupa ce anul trecut nu stiau cum sa mai puna frana fenomenului care luase proportii ingrijoratoare. Si acum dupa ce toti sunt saracii plini de credite pana peste cap la apartamente supraevaluate, masini in leasing sau electronice fara valoare, baietii ar vrea sa ii "relanseze".

Criza economicã a produs primele câteva mii de falimente

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Bogdan Chirieac: In asteptarea catastrofei economice

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Intrebarea e foarte buna. Cat o mai putem duce asa ? Si ce sa mai "relansezi" cand firmele pica pe capete, somajul e in floare si majoritatea nu stiu cum sa-si mai plateasca nici creditele vechi. Dar mai ales ce sa rezolvi cu "relansarea" ? Sa-i bagi pe oameni si mai adanc in datorii ? Sa plateasca si mai multe dobanzi la aceleasi banci care-i sug de ultimii bani deja ? Pentru a cumpara si mai multe prostii scumpe fabricate de altii, in timp ce la noi productia scade si agricultura e pe cale de disparitie ? Inteligenta gandire, foarte inteligenta.

Daca pana anul trecut unele lucruri se mai faceau si la noi cat de cat ok, acum am inceput sa copiem toate greselile vesticilor. Am scazut RMO-ul si am dat banii bancilor in loc sa lasam sa falimenteze asa cum era normal pe cei care si-au luat riscuri aiurea si au ajutat la cresterea bulei imobiliare. Ne-am bagat in credite de la FMI pe care le risipim sustinand nefondat un curs valutar scazut, bugete pentru salarii sau pensii si alte masuri populiste in cadrul campaniei electorale. Iar acum incercam sa repornim creditarea si consumul. Totul in tentativa disperata de a mai amana nitzel momentul critic. Frumos, foarte frumos.

Dar cui ne chinuim unii sa explicam aceste lucruri ? Cati vor sa le asculte si cati vor sa le inteleaga ? Si cat va mai dura pana ce lucrurile vor iesi in final la iveala ? Eh, mult a fost, putin a mai ramas. Ochii mari, urechile ciulite si inca nitzica rabdare. Si vom vedea si adevarul luand locul minciunilor...

“It takes two to speak truth, one to speak and another to hear.” Henry David Thoreau quotes (American Essayist, Poet and Philosopher, 1817-1862)

Vroiam sa-ti mai zic de somaj dar am uitat, este normal sa fie si in perioade de contractare economica somajul este chiar necesar pentru a se reorganiza fortat forta de munca (daca de buna voie nu se simt) si de a inchide societatile nerentabile. Nu vezi la noi mii de firme mici inregistrate dar cu profit varza, cand s-a pus problema de impozit forfetar au sarit cu lacrimi de crocodil, botic si telenovele ca inchid firma si altele ca nu-si permit, pai inchide-o tata ce trebuie sa te lauzi prin sat ca ai firma, smenuiesti tva-ul sa cumperi mai ieftin si de fapt ai profit muci iar firma e de kko ?
Sa ramana un sfert din firme, restul sa falimenteze, dar alea care raman sa fie solide si sa reziste, nu scrie in constitutie ca fiecare cetatean trebuie sa aibe firma, are sau nu habar de afacreri unii cred ca daca ai firma automat vin banii. Cresterea economica sanatoasa trebuei sa fie una reala nu pe pile si fitze.

Edited by andreic, 07 May 2009 - 10:02.

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Aicea-s de acord, dar vezi tu ca tocmai firmele alea mari trag tare cu pilele si fitzele. Tocmai alea fenteaza mai tare, fac afaceri cu statul, sunt iertate de datorii si primesc facilitatile cele mai mari.

Ca stii cum se zice "bariera e pentru boi, catzeii trec pe sub ea, iar dulaii sar pe deasupra". Baietii au vazut ca boii se imputinasera si au vrut sa mai dea nitzel cu pietre dupa aia mici. Normal ca s-a lasat cu schelalaieli, dar in final n-or sa rezolve mare lucru la buget nici cu normele astea...

Dar poate ceva bun tot o sa iasa: grabirea demolarii vechiului sistem pe care se chinuie sa o amane cu celelalte masuri...

Edited by flaviand, 07 May 2009 - 10:37.

andreic, on May 7 2009, 10:57, said:

Asta-i o exagerare, impozitul e 1.5 Euro pe zi, cat un pachet de tigari. Deci cine "smenuieste TVA-ul si nu face profit" n-o sa se loveasca de suma asta, ci tot aia mici care chiar nu au activitate pe ea in perioada asta de criza. Dar la anul va fi mai multe pachete de tigari.

Treaba cu evaziunea iar e frectie. Evaziune pot face doar firmele care lucreaza cu cumparatori finali (micile buticuri desi cam toate au case de marcat, hotelurile, etc) sau producatorii alimentari daca vand fara factura. Dar fiind mici buticari sau mari producatori, ii gasesti mereu la buticul/fabrica lor, bagi mai multe controale, ii arzi cu amenzi si se duce si evaziunea aia.

Dar in servicii, sau intermediere, e IMPOSIBIL sa faci evaziune. Nici o firma nu vrea sa-ti dea bani fara sa-i dai o factura sa-si deconteze cheltuiala si TVA-ul. Si daca nu inregistrezi factura (desi e electronica) din semestru in semestru se raporteaza toate facturile la financiar si daca clientul a raportat-o si tu nu, te-ai ras.

Legea e facuta in mod evident pentru a "curata" piata pentru marii rechini. Profita de criza sa creeze piete pentru multinationale.

Edited by Astor, 08 May 2009 - 19:37.

un material interesant - cunoscatorii stiu de ce   :

Public announcement GEAB N°35 (May 16, 2009): When the world steps out of a sixty-year old referential framework

Of course, everyone is free to think that a few points’ monthly variation of a particular economic or financial indicator, itself largely affected by the multiple interventions of public authorities and banks, carries much more value on the evolution of the current crisis than those stepping out of century-old referential frameworks. Everyone is also free to believe that those who anticipated neither the crisis nor its intensity are now in a position to know the precise date when it will end.

In this 35th issue of the GEAB, we also express our advice on which indicators, in this period of transition between two referential frameworks, are able to provide dependable information on the evolution of the crisis and the economic and financial environment.

The two other major themes addressed in this May 2009 issue of the GEAB are,
first, the programmed failure of the two major economic stimulus plans: namely the Chinese and American plans,
and,
secondly, the United Kingdom’s appeal to the IMF for financial assistance by the end of summer 2009.

N-am stiut unde sa postez articolul asta asa ca il bag aici. Cred ca intr-un fel este legat tot de criza.

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Ce parere aveti de chestia asta ?

sursa

nmg, on May 19 2009, 20:49, said:

E o chestie misto. Aurul a avut intotdeauna "greutate" in fata monezilor tocmai pentru ca este rar si nobil. Acu insa nu stiu cati vor solicita aur, probabil bijutierii

Edited by andreic, 19 May 2009 - 21:11.

dracon, on May 18 2009, 15:14, said:

"Financial Times" scrie chiar astazi: Standard and Poor's, the credit ratings agency, warned that the medium-term outlook on the UK's triple A rating on its debt was now "negative" rather than "stable" for the first time since it started analysing British public finances in 1978. (May 21: S&P cuts outlook for UK)

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iar sterlina se duce la vale chiar si fata de dolar de v'o 10 zile incoace..

Edited by dracon, 21 May 2009 - 23:04.

• "We will not have any more crashes in our time."- John Maynard Keynes in 1927
  
  
• "I cannot help but raise a dissenting voice to statements that we are living in a fool's paradise, and that prosperity in this country must necessarily diminish and recede in the near future."- E. H. H. Simmons, President, New York Stock Exchange, January 12, 1928
  "There will be no interruption of our permanent prosperity."- Myron E. Forbes, President, Pierce Arrow Motor Car Co., January 12, 1928
  
  
• "No Congress of the United States ever assembled, on surveying the state of the Union, has met with a more pleasing prospect than that which appears at the present time. In the domestic field there is tranquility and contentment...and the highest record of years of prosperity. In the foreign field there is peace, the goodwill which comes from mutual understanding."- Calvin Coolidge December 4, 1928
  
  
• "There may be a recession in stock prices, but not anything in the nature of a crash."- Irving Fisher, leading U.S. economist , New York Times, Sept. 5, 1929
  
  
• "Stock prices have reached what looks like a permanently high plateau. I do not feel there will be soon if ever a 50 or 60 point break from present levels, such as (bears) have predicted. I expect to see the stock market a good deal higher within a few months."- Irving Fisher, Ph.D. in economics, Oct. 17, 1929
  "This crash is not going to have much effect on business."- Arthur Reynolds, Chairman of Continental Illinois Bank of Chicago, October 24, 1929
  "There will be no repetition of the break of yesterday... I have no fear of another comparable decline."- Arthur W. Loasby (President of the Equitable Trust Company), quoted in NYT, Friday, October 25, 1929
  "We feel that fundamentally Wall Street is sound, and that for people who can afford to pay for them outright, good stocks are cheap at these prices." - Goodbody and Company market-letter quoted in The New York Times, Friday, October 25, 1929
  
  
• "This is the time to buy stocks. This is the time to recall the words of the late J. P. Morgan... that any man who is bearish on America will go broke. Within a few days there is likely to be a bear panic rather than a bull panic. Many of the low prices as a result of this hysterical selling are not likely to be reached again in many years."- R. W. McNeel, market analyst, as quoted in the New York Herald Tribune, October 30, 1929
  "Buying of sound, seasoned issues now will not be regretted" - E. A. Pearce market letter quoted in the New York Herald Tribune, October 30, 1929
  "Some pretty intelligent people are now buying stocks... Unless we are to have a panic -- which no one seriously believes, stocks have hit bottom." - R. W. McNeal, financial analyst in October 1929
  
  
• "The decline is in paper values, not in tangible goods and services...America is now in the eighth year of prosperity as commercially defined. The former great periods of prosperity in America averaged eleven years. On this basis we now have three more years to go before the tailspin."- Stuart Chase (American economist and author), NY Herald Tribune, November 1, 1929
  "Hysteria has now disappeared from Wall Street."- The Times of London, November 2, 1929
  "The Wall Street crash doesn't mean that there will be any general or serious business depression... For six years American business has been diverting a substantial part of its attention, its energies and its resources on the speculative game... Now that irrelevant, alien and hazardous adventure is over. Business has come home again, back to its job, providentially unscathed, sound in wind and limb, financially stronger than ever before." - Business Week, November 2, 1929
  "...despite its severity, we believe that the slump in stock prices will prove an intermediate movement and not the precursor of a business depression such as would entail prolonged further liquidation..." - Harvard Economic Society (HES), November 2, 1929
  
  
• "... a serious depression seems improbable; [we expect] recovery of business next spring, with further improvement in the fall." - HES, November 10, 1929
  "The end of the decline of the Stock Market will probably not be long, only a few more days at most."- Irving Fisher, Professor of Economics at Yale University, November 14, 1929
  "In most of the cities and towns of this country, this Wall Street panic will have no effect."- Paul Block (President of the Block newspaper chain), editorial, November 15, 1929
  "Financial storm definitely passed."- Bernard Baruch, cablegram to Winston Churchill, November 15, 1929
  
  
• "I see nothing in the present situation that is either menacing or warrants pessimism... I have every confidence that there will be a revival of activity in the spring, and that during this coming year the country will make steady progress." - Andrew W. Mellon, U.S. Secretary of the Treasury December 31, 1929
  "I am convinced that through these measures we have reestablished confidence." - Herbert Hoover, December 1929
  "[1930 will be] a splendid employment year."- U.S. Dept. of Labor, New Year's Forecast, December 1929
  
  
• "For the immediate future, at least, the outlook (stocks) is bright." - Irving Fisher, Ph.D. in Economics, in early 1930
  
  
• "...there are indications that the severest phase of the recession is over..." - Harvard Economic Society (HES) Jan 18, 1930
  
  
• "There is nothing in the situation to be disturbed about." - Secretary of the Treasury Andrew Mellon, Feb 1930
  
  
• "The spring of 1930 marks the end of a period of grave concern...American business is steadily coming back to a normal level of prosperity." - Julius Barnes, head of Hoover's National Business Survey Conference, Mar 16, 1930
  "... the outlook continues favorable..." - HES Mar 29, 1930
  
  
• "... the outlook is favorable..." - HES Apr 19, 1930
  
  
• "While the crash only took place six months ago, I am convinced we have now passed through the worst -- and with continued unity of effort we shall rapidly recover. There has been no significant bank or industrial failure. That danger, too, is safely behind us." - Herbert Hoover, President of the United States, May 1, 1930
  "...by May or June the spring recovery forecast in our letters of last December and November should clearly be apparent..." - HES May 17, 1930
  "Gentleman, you have come sixty days too late. The depression is over."- Herbert Hoover, responding to a delegation requesting a public works program to help speed the recovery, June 1930
  
  
• "... irregular and conflicting movements of business should soon give way to a sustained recovery..."- HES June 28, 1930
  
  
• "... the present depression has about spent its force..."  HES, Aug 30, 1930
  
  
• "We are now near the end of the declining phase of the depression."  HES Nov 15, 1930
  
  
• "Stabilization at [present] levels is clearly possible." - HES Oct 31, 1931
  
  
• "All safe deposit boxes in banks or financial institutions have been sealed... and may only be opened in the presence of an agent of the I.R.S."-
  President F.D. Roosevelt, 1933

Colin J. Seymour, June 2001
http://www.users.dircon.co.uk/~netking
20 June 2001

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Totul e detinut de banci. Oamenii sunt dati afara din case in 15 minute - pentru ca au inchiriat casa de la un proprietar care a pierdut-o pentru ca nu a platit bancii. Si nu le-a spus nimic la astia, asa ca vine politia si le cere sa plece in 15 minute. Mare munca au facut bancile cand au creat banii pentru constructia casei. Normal ca au dreptul sa o detina. Oamenii care au muncit contruind casele alea nu au decat sa isi piarda si ei propriile case si sa traiasca in corturi. O tara de case noi si goale si oameni fara case. Welcome to capitalism.

Edited by jet li, 08 June 2009 - 11:12.

Eu am inteles perfect ce a zis autorl tret-ului la inceput, dar cred ca nu a explicat prea bine
de ce suntem prosti si ne chinuim sa facem o casa in 10 ani, sa ne luam masina si alte cele cand am putea sa ne ajutam unu pe altu sa ne facem case, masini, haleu si cand toata lumea v-a avea cele trebuincioase sa stea sa se distreze si alte cele, da noi ar trebui sa vorbim de realitate nu de e imi trece mie acum prin minte.

Si am si eu o intrebare: Daca nu se zicea la TV ca e criza mondiala si toata lumea tine bani la cioap si nu mai cumpara nimic, nimeni nu tinea bani la ciorap si asa bani se invarteau in circuitu asta continu care era inainte de criza.

Ps: Am vazut undeva ceva foarte interesant, ceva de genu: Daca soarele v-a trimite nu stiu cum niste unde magnetice si nimic dn ce e cu cip nu v-a mai merge? Ar trebui sa ne apucam de agricultura ca s-a ne facem rost de mancare, nu ne-ar mai interesa s-a cumparam tot felul de prosti ( calc, masina, mobila, haine de fite, cristale si haur, n-am mai plati curentu si nici alte facturi, etc, si cel mai probabil nici la stat faturi sau cum sa numescale de le da tata in fiecare an), ar mai merge doar Dacia pana la Logan si ARO cine mai are.----Astea v-or fi niste vremuri nasoale zic eu.

Si cind te-ai trezit era ziua .

La inceput ne-au aburit ca oamenii saraci din sua care desi erau saraci, sa indurat clinton de ei si le-a dat voie sa imprumute bani, dar ei ca niste nesimtiti au luat toti bani bancilor din america, dupa aia din europa si din toata lumea, inclusiv banii ozenurilor care erau in tranzit in acea vreme.

Acum ne vor aburi citiva ani ca trebuie sa tragem tare ca sa iesim din criza. La sfirsit ca de obicei unii vor fi mult mai bogati, in timp ce fraierii vor fi saraci lipiti, si mai ales fara o multime de drepturi la care au renuntat cu mindrie ca sa apere bogatasii de "criza".

Apropo ati observat cum "teoria conspiratiei" a ajuns o buna metoda de aburire ? Adica dupa ce il prinzi pe x cu mina pina la cot in banii tai, este suficient sa zica " ba mai termina cu teoria conspiratiei" si nu mai indrazneste nimeni "sa se faca de ris". Eu unul cred ca este o prostie pentru ca acolo unde sint doi oameni unul o sa vrea sa fie sef, asa ca nu cred sa stea in picioare vreo teorie conspirativa asa mult cum zice legenda (stiti voi ... de la inceputurile timpurilor, niste oameni stau si trag sforile lumii...)

setlers, on 27th June 2009, 03:35, said:

Asta e din totdeauna, sistemul e condus de reptilieni si altele Trecand peste faptul ca o teorie e teorie si atat.

setlers, on 27th June 2009, 03:35, said:

Daca te exprimi corect, si in loc de "saraci" pui "iresponsabili" (ipotecile cu risc mare, sub prime, venituri mici, copii multi etc) atunci nu e nici o abureala, exact asa s-a si intamplat. Oricum se intampla si la noi dar pe scara mica abia in vootor incepem sa vedem efectele, cas evandute si altele ca am auzit ca a crescut masiv gradul de indatorare... totusi la noi economia subterana, corupta, e asa puternica incat criza inca nu se vede, e mascata si se gasesc cumparatori de Enzo si q7... ma astept sa vad si ultimul targ de yachturi de lux in fata parlamentului

Edited by andreic, 27 June 2009 - 03:07.

Noi nici nu ar trebui sa ne alarmam prea tare, Romanian a fost tot timpul in criza economica. Eu unul nici nu ma mai stresez.