Haplogrupuri in Romania si Europa

neur0, on 02 decembrie 2019 - 14:58, said:

Poti, ei cum sa nu poti. De ex. Nadine aia de la televiziunea romana 1. E romanca, si e sudaneza 999%, e drept ca nu neagra ca taciunele ci maronie ca cacaua, dar tot e mai bine ca Obama.. sau Loreta aia.. care umbla cu Ogica, ala de a castigat la loz in plic...

Edited by criztu, 02 December 2019 - 15:30.

leonardusius, on 02 decembrie 2019 - 13:22, said:

asta e cea mai mare prostie auzita vreodata.
cica genele determina culturile.

neur0, on 02 decembrie 2019 - 14:58, said:

Multe ipoteze nu mai au valoare de adevar, iar altele s-au ridicat. De pilda astazi savantii occidentali considera ca migratia neolitica din Asia Mică, a fost una firava, iar aportul populational a venit dinspre vanatorii paleolitici locali.

Lipsa de continuitate vine de la cei care inca tin de ideea latinitatii, adica vrem continuitate dar nu pentru catei.

NU!, y haplotipul nu te poate face alb daca esti negru, dar iti poate indica tot traseul inaintasilor. Nici macar analiza autosomiala nu deruteaza pe nimeni, dar ii poate spune unui negru cu trasaturi frumoase ca nu este bantoid 100% cum si-ar fi dorit, ci probabil are si inaintasi irlandezi, indieni, samd.

I2a1 (I-P37)

I-P37.2
The I-P37.2+, also known as I2a1 (or I-L68, is the SNP that defines I2a1. The subclade divergence for I-P37.2 occurred 10.7±4.8 kya. The age of YSTR variation for the P37.2 subclade is 8.0±4.0 kya.[2] It is the predominant version of I2 in Eastern Europe.[7] The I2a is further made up by sub-groups I-M26, I-M423, I-L1286, I-L880.

I-M223
Haplogroup I2a2a (ISOGG 2014). The age of YSTR variation for the I-M223 subclade is 13.2±2.7 kya[2] and 12.3±3.1 kya.[12] YFull - "formed 15800 ybp, TMRCA 11700 ybp".[17] I-M223 has a peak in Germany and another in eastern Sweden, but also appears in Romania/Moldova, Russia, Greece, Italy and around the Black Sea.[18] Haplogroup I2a2a has been found in over 4% of the population only in Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, Scotland, and England (excluding Cornwall) – also the southern tips of Sweden and Norway in Northwest Europe; the provinces of Normandy, Maine, Anjou, and Perche in northwestern France; the province of Provence in southeastern France; the regions of Tuscany, Umbria, and Latium in Italy; Moldavia and the area around Russia's Ryazan Oblast and Mordovia in Eastern Europe. Of historical note, both haplogroups I-M253 and I-M223 appear at a low frequency in the historical regions of Bithynia and Galatia in Turkey. Haplogroup I2a2a also occurs among approximately 1% of Sardinians. The subclade divergence for M223 occurred 14.6±3.8 kya (Rootsi 2004).
Haplogroup I-M223 can be further subdivided in several subclades designated in the Y2012 ISOGG tree as follows:
Haplogroup I-M223 with no further known polymorphisms,
Haplogroup I-M284 defined by M284 polymorphism and including an undergroup Haplogroup I-L126 reserved for individuals derived for the L126/S165, L137/S166 polymorphisms, *Haplogroup I-L701 associated with L701 polymorphism, and Haplogroup I-Z161 denoting individuals derived for the Z161 polymorphism. https://en.wikipedia...plogroup_I-M438



I P37 -este paleolitic-european (i2a1), deci foarte vechi.

M 423 este tot din paleoliticul ceva mai recent, iar M223 tot din paleolitic.

https://www.eupedia...._I2_Y-DNA.shtml

Haplogroup I2a1b (M423)
I2a1b (M423, L178) was known as I1b until 2007, and I2a2 from 2008 to 2010. The main subclade, representing over 90% of all M423 lineages is L621 and its subclade L147.2. The other subclades are L41.2 (very rare) and L161.1 (found mostly in Germany and the British Isles).
Haplogroup I2a1b-L621
This branch is found overwhelmingly in Slavic countries. Its maximum frequencies are observed among the Dinaric Slavs (Slovenes, Croats, Bosniaks, Serbs, Montenegrins and Macedonians) as well as in Bulgaria, Romania, Moldavia, western Ukraine and Belarus. It is also common to a lower extent in Albania, Greece, Hungary, Slovakia, Poland, and south-western Russia. I2-L621 (L147.2+) is also known as as I2a-Din (for Dinaric).
The high concentration of I2a1b-L621 in north-east Romania, Moldova and central Ukraine reminds of the maximum spread of the Cucuteni-Trypillian culture (4800-3000 BCE). No Y-DNA sample from this culture has been tested to date, but as it evolved as an offshoot from the Starčevo–Kőrös–Criş culture, it is likely that I2a was one of its main paternal lineages, and a founder effect could have increased considerably its frequency. The Cucuteni-Trypillian culture was the most advanced Neolithic culture in Europe before the Indo-European invasions in the Bronze Age and seems to have had intensive contacts with the Steppe culture before the expansion of Yamna to the Balkans and Central Europe (see histories of R1a and R1b). From 3500 BCE, at the onset of the Yamna period in the Pontic-Caspian Steppe, the Cucuteni-Trypillian people started expanding east into the steppe of what is now western Ukraine, leaving their towns (the largest in the world at the time), and adopting an increasingly nomadic lifestyle like their Yamna neighbours. It can easily be imagined that Cucuteni-Trypillian people became assimilated by the Yamna neighbours and that they spread as a minority lineage alongside haplogroups R1a and R1b as they advanced toward the Baltic with the Corded Ware expansion. Alternatively, I2-L621 lineages could have lived in relative isolation from the mainstream Proto-Indo-European society somewhere around Ukraine, Poland or Belarus, then as the centuries and millennia passed, would have blended with the predominantly R1a populations around them. The resulting amalgam would have become the ancestors of the Proto-Slavs.


1-2% suntem M223, adica i2 viking-germanic.

Infinitty, on 02 decembrie 2019 - 20:23, said:

mai scrie, fara sa exagerez ai un talent de prozator aparte, cu influente stilistice subtile din nesfarsita balada cu cotele apelor Dunarii.

Edited by zz_dop, 02 December 2019 - 20:37.

12% of the Romanians belong to R1b, the Alpino-Italic branch R1b-U152 is at 2% per 330 samples, a lower frequency recorded than other Balkan peoples.

The branches R1b-U106, R1b-DF27 and R1b-L21 make up 1% respectively.[78] The eastern branches R1b-M269* and L23* (Z2103) make up 7% and outnumber the Atlantic branches, they prevail in parts of east, central Europe and as a result of Greek colonisation – in parts of Sicily as well.

R1b il avem din perioada neolitică tot din stepele euro-asiatice.

Infinitty, on 02 decembrie 2019 - 19:28, said:

esti sigur. zice la buletinul de stiri,

An Y chromosome DNA test (Y-DNA test) is a genealogical DNA test which is used to explore a man's patrilineal or direct father's-line ancestry. The Y chromosome, like the patrilineal surname, passes down virtually unchanged from father to son.

cu alte cuvinte, pe de o parte haplotipul Y e relevant doar pentru jumate din omuletzii actuali, mai exact, indica haplotipul Y al taticilor respectivilor omuletzi. dar jumatea ailalta de omuletzi vii, care se mai cheama si doamne si domnisoare, n-are cromozom Y si nici haplotopul aferent si in consecinta e ca si cand n-ar fi, desi desigur este.
iar pe de alta parte, eu inteleg ca acest haplotip indica doar legatura dintre strict omuletzul testat si tac-so. la care, sigur, statistici. dar de la tac-so indarat pana la maimuta de pestera, in mod efectiv nu se poate sti care pe unde a haladuit.

vad ca m-am intins cu proza ca un epigon. deci, dincolo de difotomia de mai sus, care e certa, e pe baza de proza cu likely, couldhavewouldhave, nosamplehasbeentested, itcanbeimagined, samd. proza.

Edited by zz_dop, 02 December 2019 - 23:30.

neur0, on 02 decembrie 2019 - 14:58, said:

intr-o societate patriarhala,
linia barbateasca este esentiale in a defini etnic un grup.
Iar definitia etnica e si cea culturala.
Ca un barbat are copii cu femei de origini in afara tribului
este chiar o practica la anumite populatii.
Dar linia barbateasca stabileste etnia.

Iar linia barbateasca e definita genetic de haplogrupul Y

neur0, on 02 decembrie 2019 - 14:58, said:

cum am spus-o, femeile introduc o alta contributie genetica, de multe ori din afara tribului.

Numai ca cultural, intr-o societate patriarhala,
precum a fost cea europeana crestina,
barbatul da tonul

neur0, on 02 decembrie 2019 - 14:58, said:

eu zic ca tu introduci o perspectiva yiddenita

zz_dop, on 02 decembrie 2019 - 23:26, said:

Pai este schimbat, este cel care trece prin mutatii destul de des la scala istorica si tocmai ca acesta este singurul care iti arata traseul de la o regiune la alta pe distante relativ mici.

enough1453, on 03 decembrie 2019 - 01:51, said:

Tu spui că poți fi negru ca tăciunele dar cultural să fii alb? Bine, ține-o așa.
Totul e un construct cultural și social, nu?

Infinitty, on 03 decembrie 2019 - 05:15, said:

propun sa rugam pe cineva care a luat bacaloreatu sa ne traduca si noua pasajul de mai jos.
north-east Romania, Moldova and central Ukraine reminds of the maximum spread of the Cucuteni-Trypillian culture (4800-3000 BCE). No Y-DNA sample from this culture has been tested to date

enough1453, on 02 decembrie 2019 - 17:32, said:

'Auzi' foarte rau, si totodata intelegi si foarte prost.....se mai intampla. 'Cladele' determina culturile, adica perioadele determinate in timp de anumite clade, dar la unii trebuie sa le scri ca la tonti.

zz_dop, on 03 decembrie 2019 - 12:28, said:

Nord-estul Romaniei, Republica Moldova si Ucraina centrala, sunt zonele de intindere maxima a Culturii Cucuteni-Tripolie intinsa cronologic in perioada 4800-3000 inainte de Hristos.

Nici o proba Y ADN nu a fost testata din aceasta cultura arheologica.

De fapt cucutenienii isi incinerau mortii precum geto-dacii clasici, deci ioc ADN.

Cucutenienii isi ingropau sub pragul usii copiii avortati, dar probabil si acestia semi-incinerati.

neur0, on 03 decembrie 2019 - 11:51, said:

Barbatii definesc cultural o societate (vorbim de societatile patriarhale).
Barbatii sunt cei care accepta/introduc noi elemente in cultura.
Barbatii sunt cei care definesc conformitatea in cultura.

Un tabu important de care tin barbatii intr-o societate este RASA.
Barbatii sunt prin definitie rasisti.

Asa ca vorbesti prostii.

leonardusius, on 03 decembrie 2019 - 13:03, said:

in limba romaneasca cladă inseamna gramada.

tonti e clada.

enough1453, on 03 decembrie 2019 - 16:39, said:

Teroare sa auzi asemenea elucubratii. Nu mai consuma alcool cand trebuie sa gandesti catusi de putin.

enough1453, on 03 decembrie 2019 - 16:39, said:

Clada este si un neologism. Poate insemna si un subhaplogrup, tontule.

Edited by leonardusius, 03 December 2019 - 18:43.

leonardusius, on 03 decembrie 2019 - 18:41, said:

bai cladă,
las-o baltă ca dai in gropi.

leonardusius, on 03 decembrie 2019 - 18:41, said:

in engleza e "clade" se traduce prin "încrengătură".

inseamna un grup de organisme ce au evoluat dintr-un ancestor comun.

In regnul vegetal avem de exemplu paduri ce s-au format
dintr-o singura încrengătură de radacini.

Sa asemeni regnul vegetal cu spiritualitatea umana e o imbecilitate.
Adica iudaismul a crescut doar intr-un singur ancestor comun?

Adica Noe, Moise, Abraham etc. inseamna doar un singur ancestor comun?
ASta e o perspectiva determinista, gen socialismul-stiintific.

Vezi ca gandirea moderna este mult mai evoluata astazi decat in timpurile in care traiesti tu.

enough1453, on 03 decembrie 2019 - 19:07, said:

Clada e un cuvant/neologism specific acceptat. Biologia cuprinde o multime de stiinte, si termenul 'increngatura' nu este potrivit pentru subiectul in cauza.
Cat priveste cealalta chestie, nu ai inteles nimic, esti greu de cap. Spiritualitatea nu este ceva 'eteric, imaterial', este sustinuta/influentata de 'material' si poate avea repere clare istorico-cronologice.
Da, spiritualitatea religioasa iudaica este MOZAICA 99%, adica provine de la un singur om, Moise, de unde si denumirea. si in plus spiritualitatea iudaica in ansamblu este foarte centrifuga si inchisa asa ca FAULT, exemplul tau e ca 'datu' cu stangu'n dreptu'. Puteai apela la altceva mai potrivit.

leonardusius, on 04 decembrie 2019 - 11:36, said:

bai cladă, ramai tu la determinismul tau al socialismului stiintific,
si in credinta ta ca Marx nu si-a pierdut schmuckul cu rabinul facandu-i o m...e cu herpes.