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Civilizatie

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#1
jet li

jet li

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Povestea a inceput acum vreo 3000 de ani. Sclavii au produs din ce in ce mai mult, si ei s-au inmultit din ce in ce mai mult. Au inventat noi tehnologii, au crescut productia, s-au inmultit si mai mult, au luat in stapanire si mai mult din cea ce acum numesc "natura", sau "salbaticia din afara lumii noastre". Au devenit asa de buni la produs mancare - incat s-a ajuns la o situatie ciudata, si pentru stapani si pentru sclavi, anume: mai multi sclavi nu mai inseamna mai bine, nici macar pentru stapani. Nu mai e nevoie de ei datorita noilor inventii. Pentru a supravietui, sclavii (se cred liberi si se intituleaza angajati) trebuie sa isi caute ceva de facut, in afara productiei lucrurilor de baza. Se poate sa nu gaseasca nici aici, atunci sunt inutili. Inutili pentru stapani, pentru sistem. La cat ii duce capul (nu sunt prea destepti), sunt in stare sa distruga sau sa nu foloseasca inventiile care le usureaza munca, doar ca sa aiba ceva de facut. Atat stiu.

O organizare desteapta incepe de la asigurarea lucrurilor de baza, sustenabil pentru toti. Adica- hrana, adapost. Asigurarea accesului tuturor la acestea, si la munca pentru ele. Nimeni obligat sa intre in sistemul care ii permite accesul acestea, dar nimeni lasat pe dinafara daca vrea sa participe, sa fie obligat sa isi caute un stapan, la care sa fie sclav, pentru a accesa lucrurile de baza. Cu tehnologia de azi toti putem avea aceste lucruri, foarte usor. Maxim 2 luni de munca pe an.

Dar, "oamenii vor mai mult!". Foarte bine, nimeni nu ii opreste sa munceasca in continuare sa obtina mai mult, orice vor. Dar nu vor toti aceleasi lucruri. Unii vor fi fericiti sa joace fotbal in cele 10 luni care le raman. Altii - sa calatoreasca. Altii sa picteze. Altii sa isi construiasca masini cu care sa se plimbe. Reusesc asta asociindu-se cu altii cu aceasi pasiune, sau prin comert - schimburi cu altii. De ex: "voi ne ajutati la fabrica noastra de masini, noi va dam X (bani), sau va ajutam la fabrica voastra de bere". Dar nimeni nu va mai munci pentru altii - pentru ca e obligat s-o faca pentru a supravietui. Nu pentru ca e vreo lege comunista anti-mosieri/patroni etc, ci prin natura lucrurilor - asa numitii "oameni saraci", vor putea atunci supravietui si fara stapani, apoi vor alege ce vor in plus, si la ce sau pentru cine sa lucreze. Asta nu e decat sclavie sub un alt nume. Va munci doar daca vrea el ceva in plus, are o pasiune pentru ceva, ii place ce face, vrea sa obina ceva. Azi traim in intuneric total in privinta asta. Am uitat ce inseamna "om liber".

Edited by jet li, 04 July 2012 - 10:26.


#2
pro-civilizatie

pro-civilizatie

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Lasa ,ca si tribalii se lupta si se omoara intre ei pentru terenuri de vanatoare si pentru achizitia de femei.
In plus tribalii nu pot oferi singurul lucru care ne face cu adevarat umani:dorinta de cunoastere.

Edited by pro-civilizatie, 04 July 2012 - 15:36.


#3
jet li

jet li

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Sete de cunoastere zici? Uita-te in jur la cat de ignorant e omul civilizat.

Quote

Knowledge was inherent in all things. The world was a library and its books were the stones, leaves, grass, brooks and the birds and animals that shared, alike with us, the storms and blessings of the earth. We learn to do what only the student of nature ever learns, and that is to feel beauty. We never rail at the storms, the furious winds, the biting frosts and snows. To do so intensifies human futility, so whatever comes we should adjust ourselves by more effort and energy if necessary, but without complaint. Bright days and dark days are both expressions of the Great Mystery, and the Indian reveled in being close the the Great Holiness.

-Chief Luther Standing Bear

Quote

Several thousand Coahuila Indians never exhausted the natural resources of a desert region in South California, in which today only a handful of white families manage to subsist. They lived in a land of plenty, for in this apparently completely barren territory, they were familiar with no less than sixty kinds of edible plants and twenty-eight others of narcotic, stimulant or medicinal properties (Barrows). A single Seminol informant could identify two hundred and fifty species and varieties of plants (Sturtevant). Three hundred and fifty plants known to the Hopi Indians and more than five hundred to the Navaho have been recorded."


#4
jet li

jet li

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Quote

The Virginians of 1619 were desperate for labor, to grow enough food to stay alive. Among them were survivors from the winter of 1609-1610, the "starving time," when, crazed for want of food, they roamed the woods for nuts and berries, dug up graves to eat the corpses, and died in batches until five hundred colonists were reduced to sixty.
In the Journals of the House of Burgesses of Virginia is a document of 1619 which tells of the first twelve years of the Jamestown colony. The first settlement had a hundred persons, who had one small ladle of barley per meal. When more people arrived, there was even less food. Many of the people lived in cavelike holes dug into the ground, and in the winter of 1609-1610, they were

...driven through insufferable hunger to eat those things which nature most abhorred, the flesh and excrements of man as well of our own nation as of an Indian, digged by some out of his grave after he had laid buried there days and wholly devoured him; others, envying the better state of body of any whom hunger has not yet so much wasted as their own, lay wait and threatened to kill and eat them; one among them slew his wife as she slept in his bosom, cut her in pieces, salted her and fed upon her till he had clean devoured all parts saving her head...

A petition by thirty colonists to the House of Burgesses, complaining against the twelve-year governorship of Sir Thomas Smith, said:

In those 12 years of Sir Thomas Smith, his government, we aver that the colony for the most part remained in great want and misery under most severe and cruel laws... The allowance in those times for a man was only eight ounces of meale and half a pint of peas for a day... mouldy, rotten, full of cobwebs and maggots, loathsome to man and not fit for beasts, which forced many to flee for relief to the savage enemy, who being taken again were put to sundry deaths as by hanging, shooting and breaking upon the wheel... of whom one for stealing two or three pints of oatmeal had a bodkin thrust through his tongue and was tied with a chain to a tree until he starved...

The Virginians needed labor, to grow corn for subsistence, to grow tobacco for export. They had just figured out how to grow tobacco, and in 1617 they sent off the first cargo to England. Finding that, like all pleasureable drugs tainted with moral disapproval, it brought a high price, the planters, despite their high religious talk, were not going to ask questions about something so profitable.
They couldn't force the Indians to work for them, as Columbus had done. They were outnumbered, and while, with superior firearms, they could massacre Indians, they would face massacre in return. They could not capture them and keep them enslaved; the Indians were tough, resourceful, defiant, and at home in these woods, as the transplanted Englishmen were not.
White servants had not yet been brought over in sufficient quantity. Besides, they did not come out of slavery, and did not have to do more than contract their labor for a few years to get their passage and a start in the New World. As for the free white settlers, many of them were skilled craftsmen, or even men of leisure back in England, who were so little inclined to work the land that John Smith, in those early years, had to declare a kind of martial law, organize them into work gangs, and force them into the fields for survival.
There may have been a kind of frustrated rage at their own ineptitude, at the Indian superiority at taking care of themselves, that made the Virginians especially ready to become the masters of slaves. Edmund Morgan imagines their mood as he writes in his book American Slavery, American Freedom:

If you were a colonist, you knew that your technology was superior to the Indians'. You knew that you were civilized, and they were savages... But your superior technology had proved insufficient to extract anything. The Indians, keeping to themselves, laughed at your superior methods and lived from the land more abundantly and with less labor than you did... And when your own people started deserting in order to live with them, it was too much... So you killed the Indians, tortured them, burned their villages, burned their cornfields. It proved your superiority, in spite of your failures. And you gave similar treatment to any of your own people who succumbed to their savage ways of life. But you still did not grow much corn...

Black slaves were the answer.

http://www.historyis...ncolorline.html

#5
benis

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jet li, ignori faptul că există o serie de țări în care nevoile de bază sunt satisfăcute în cazul a 100% din pupulație, cel puțin in țăile nordice nu cred că există oameni fără adăpost și hrană. Și cu toate astea, nici acolo nu e perfect.

"comuna primitivă" este o formă de organizare foarte bună atâta timp cât se limitează la câteva sute de indivizi (maxim, chiar și acolo se mai dă cu pi_da de gard, vezi primarii corupți pe la sate), tot ce e peste naște structuri monstruase, unde apare corupția și delapidarea de resurse. Problema e cum integrezi conceptul de celulă socială autonomă bazată pe câțiva zeci (în cel mai bun caz) sau sute de oameni într-un oraș. Nu e imposibil, e greu. Și nu-mi spune că nu ai nevoie de orașe când avem 7 miliarde de oameni.

Majoritatea cunoaștem problemele sistemului actual de conviețuire, mă rog, mai sunt și ignoranți dar hai să-i ignorăm.

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