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Originea românilor - partea II
Last Updated: Nov 04 2010 12:21, Started by
Courage
, Sep 30 2009 12:43
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#7975
Posted 25 June 2010 - 08:27
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Un stopcadru de simbioza bulgaro-slava-vlaha Boier vine din turka, via bulgari. Oras-Var vine tot de la bulgari. I. PROTO-BULGARIAN INSCRIPTIONS IN GREEK LETTERS 2. Remarks on the Proto-Bulgarian Inscription from Preslav The inscriptions will be analysed one by one in order to clarify their linguistic nature. The largest inscription - that from Preslav, enumerates the armaments at the disposal of two high Bulgarian dignitaries - one of the rank of ICHIRGU BOILA and another one of rank of TORTUNA PILE ZHOPAN........ |
#7976
Posted 25 June 2010 - 08:40
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Un stopcadru de simbioza bulgaro-slava-vlaha Boier vine din turka, via bulgari. Oras-Var vine tot de la bulgari. I. PROTO-BULGARIAN INSCRIPTIONS IN GREEK LETTERS 2. Remarks on the Proto-Bulgarian Inscription from Preslav The inscriptions will be analysed one by one in order to clarify their linguistic nature. The largest inscription - that from Preslav, enumerates the armaments at the disposal of two high Bulgarian dignitaries - one of the rank of ICHIRGU BOILA and another one of rank of TORTUNA PILE ZHOPAN........ Boier e probabil din rom^na (daca), in nici o limba turca nu exista boier cu sensul pe care il stim noi, iar "var"/"oras" tot din traca, cel putin asa zic lingvisti precum Paliga
Si termenul "ȚARĂ" s-ar putea sa provina din slavul "ȚARAT" si nu din "TERRA", deoarece doar in vest se folosea "LAND -TERRA", in timp ce in rasarit se spunea ȚINUT, CODRII, TEME, MOȘII, ... (nici romanii nu foloseau termenul TERRA prea des pt. Tzara). Eu zic ca "Tara" vine clar din "terra", adica "pamant", vezi si "tarina"-adica aratura, ogor etc. sau "tar^na"-adica pamant, praf. Pana sa ajunga tarii rusi sa aiba un tarat si sa fie cineva, la noi exista de mult termenul. Iar cei bulgari au fost trecatori si cu putina influenta incat sa impuna termenul asta la noi. Sa nu uitam ca fratii Asanesti, care erau vlahi, nu au folosit titlul de "tar". Edited by lupu2, 25 June 2010 - 08:44. |
#7977
Posted 25 June 2010 - 09:14
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Boier e probabil din rom^na (daca), in nici o limba turca nu exista boier cu sensul pe care il stim noi, iar "var"/"oras" tot din traca, cel putin asa zic lingvisti precum Paliga Eu zic ca "Tara" vine clar din "terra", adica "pamant", vezi si "tarina"-adica aratura, ogor etc. sau "tar^na"-adica pamant, praf. Pana sa ajunga tarii rusi sa aiba un tarat si sa fie cineva, la noi exista de mult termenul. Iar cei bulgari au fost trecatori si cu putina influenta incat sa impuna termenul asta la noi. Sa nu uitam ca fratii Asanesti, care erau vlahi, nu au folosit titlul de "tar". http://groznijat.tri...ng/pbl_1_3.html desi bulgarii erau turci, limba lor era bine imbunatatita cu cuvinte iranice. http://groznijat.tri...l_oldwords.html bulgarii fac parte din istoria noastra. Institutiile boier, jupan, ban vin de la ei. Asta arata impactul major al imperiului bulgar asupra vlahilor si rolul lor in formarea lor ca neam. Quote New Research (2010) New research from 2010 by the scientific Tangra expedition, with DNA evidence gathered from people in Afghanistan and Tajikistan (analysed in the national genetic labarotory) disproves the Turkic (and other theories)[10]. Dr Slavian Stoilov, who was part of the Tangra expedition, concluded by studying the DNA evidence[11][12] [13][14][15] ,that present day Bulgarians are genetically very far from Slavs and are actually very close to Pamirian/ Iranic peoples. DNA evidence is not the only factor to support this conclusion; other evidence is the striking similarity of agriculture, folklore and linguistics[16](language, place names and people names, religion, architecture(the religious buildings in Pliska are aranged in a Zoroastrian fashion) culture and the way of life between Bulgarians and Pamirian peoples). Another important fact is that the Kingdom of Balhara (the earliest known state of the Bulgars)was situated in Pamir/Hindukush as well. There is also sufficient archaeological evidence in light of this conclusion. By establishing the fact that modern day Bulgarians descend mostly from Bulgars and partly from the local Thracian tribes, we can conclude that the Bulgars were not Turkic (nor were they Turanid, Slavs, Ugrians or Huns as some other theories suggest), but were in fact Pamirian/Iranic, with their homeland being Pamir (Kingdom of Balhara) Dr Slavian Stoilov also said that if his team proves that Bulgarian traditional medicine is synonymous with ancient Persian medicine, then there will be nothing left to prove after that. Iran will soon, for the first time, allow Bulgarian scientists access to their museaums and ancient documents, allowing them to gather more proof. Edited by vlachus, 25 June 2010 - 09:34. |
#7978
Posted 25 June 2010 - 09:57
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Quote Social structure The Bulgars had a well-developed clan system and were governed by hereditary rulers. The members of the military aristocracy bore the title boyil (boyar). There also were bagains - lesser military commanders. The nobility were further divided onto Small and Great Boyars. The latter formed the Council of the Great Boyars and gathered to take decisions on important state matters presided by the khan (king). Their numbers varied between six and twelve. These probably included the ichirgu boyil and the kavkhan (vice khan), the two most powerful people after the khan. These titles were administrative and noninheritable. The boyars could also be internal and external, probably distinguished by their place of residence — inside or outside the capital.[22] The heir of the throne was called kanartikin. Other subroyal titles used by the Bulgarian noble class include boyila tarkan (possibly the second son of the khan), kana boyila kolobur (chief priest), boritarkan (city mayor). That the early Bulgar rulers used the title khan is only an assumption, since the evidence for it is scanty and only suggestive. The rulers were called Kanasubigi or Kanayuvigi, shortened to yuvigi, which in Pamirian languages translates roughly to "placed (on throne) by God" There is the event of the Bulgarian ruler, Pagan being called "Καμπαγάνος" (Kampaganos) by Patriarch Nicephorus (Nikephoros) in the Patriarch's so called Breviarium, at the end of section 16. The editors of a Bulgarian edition of this source have claimed (via an annotation) that "Kampaganos" is a corruption of "Kan Pagan".[27][28] There is a word kanasubigi in stone inscriptions, which some historians presume is a compound of kana, the archaic form of 'khan'. Among the proposed translations for the phrase kanasubigi are 'lord of the army', from the reconstructed Turkic phrase *sü begi, paralleling the attested Old Turkic sü bači,[22] and, more recently, '(ruler) from God', from the Indo-European *su- and baga-, i.e. *su-baga (a counterpart of the Greek phrase ὁ ἐκ Θεοῦ ἄρχων, ho ek Theou archon, which is common in Bulgar inscriptions).[29] This titulature presumably persisted until the Bulgars adopted Christianity.[30] Some Bulgar inscriptions written in Greek and later in Slavonic refer to the Bulgarian ruler respectively with the Greek title archon or the Slavic title knyaz.[31] e clar impactul puternicii culturi bulgare cu cea post romana. e clara influenta. si cum cele doua culturi trebuiau sa comunice cumva, au folosit limba intermediarilor, a slavilor. care geografic erau localizati in centrul bugariei si macedoniei, buffer zone intre marea neagra (locatia bulgarilor) si Balkani (locatia vlahilor). Kuber From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation, search This article is about 7th century Bulgarian leader. For the Hindu god, see Kubera. Khan Kuber (or Kouver) was a Bulgar leader, probably brother of Khan Asparukh and member of the Dulo clan, who according to the Miracles of St Demetrius, in the 670s was the leader of a mixed Christian population of Bulgars, ‘Romans’, Slavs and Germanic people[1] that had been transferred to the Srem region in Pannonia by the Avars 60 years earlier[2][3]. The Miracles of St Demetrius states that, circa 680 AD, Kuber had a fallng out with the Avar khagan, and after repelling an Avar attack, led his followers of around 70,000 people,[4] from Srem and to Macedonia. The Byzantines initially called his people Sermisianoi (after their former settlement - Sirmium), and later the Keramisians (after their new place: the Keramissian plain in Greater Macedonia). In Macedonia, they had contacts and possibly mixed with the Dragovites - a Slavic tribe in the region.[2][3] Some of his people wanted to disperse to their respective various homelands. Since they were Christians, they were probably once imperial subjects that were captured by the Avars. Kuber asked the Byzantine Emperor Constantine IV to not allow the dispersal of his people, fearing that his power will decline.[citation needed] Rebuffed by the Emperor, he resolved to attack Thessaloniki, but failed. He probably made a few other sporadic attacks on the Byzantines. Professor Vasil Zlatarski, a Bulgarian scholar, suggests that Kuber was the ‘unnamed son’ of Great Kubrat. Certainly, being a prominent prince would explain why the Avars gave him rule, and his appearance in 670 chronologically fits the downfall of Old Bulgaria. He also suggests that Kuber's people represented a second Balkan Bulgar ‘state’ in Macedonia, parallel to that of his brother's Asparukh realm in the north-eastern Balkans. Whether he had established a state of sorts or not, nothing is mentioned of Kuber after the 680s,[2] but in the beginning of the 8th century Asparukh's son, Tervel, is said to have cooperated with "his uncles" from Macedonia.[5] His people were probably absorbed into the Slavs living in the area, well before Khan Presian expanded his Bulgarian Empire into Macedonia in the early 800s.[6] Seal of Maurus - the most likely historical "Kuber" - from 684-685 AD. The inscription says: "Of Maurus, patricius and archont of the Sermisani and Bulgars". The prominent archaeologist from Republic of Macedonia Ivan Mikulèiæ revealed the presence not only of the Kuber group, but an entire Bulgar archaeological culture throughout Macedonia and eastern Albania [7]. He describes the traces of Bulgars in this region, which consist of typical fortresses, burials, various products of metallurgy and pottery (including treasure with supposed Bulgar origin or ownership), lead seals, minted from Kuber, amulets, etc. However, part of this could actually represent traces of Avar presence. They are known to have raided as far south as Macedonia, and the material culture of the Avars was very similar to the Bulgars.[2] |
#7979
Posted 25 June 2010 - 12:50
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In esenta suntem DACI, adica un fel de SLAVI, oricum supusi influentelor slave de tot felul |
#7980
Posted 25 June 2010 - 15:31
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Si termenul "ȚARĂ" s-ar putea sa provina din slavul "ȚARAT" Caesar -> Czar -> Tzar -> Tzarat [slava] Caesar -> Kaiser -> Kaiserreich [germana] Tzarat inseamna strict imperiu / imparatie Ce dracu-i in capul tau? |
#7981
Posted 25 June 2010 - 15:43
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http://groznijat.tri...ng/pbl_1_3.html desi bulgarii erau turci, limba lor era bine imbunatatita cu cuvinte iranice. http://groznijat.tri...l_oldwords.html bulgarii fac parte din istoria noastra. Institutiile boier, jupan, ban vin de la ei. Asta arata impactul major al imperiului bulgar asupra vlahilor si rolul lor in formarea lor ca neam. Conform unor lingvisti si istorici, "boier" nu are cum sa vina de la ei, in limbile turcice nu exista "boier" cu sensul de la noi, e probabil o coincidenta de cuvinte ceva. E un cuvant autohton, desemnand un rang autohton. Parca si la "jupan" e la fel, nu mai stiu exact, am postat articolul lui Paliga mai demult. Impactul bulgarilor a fost doar in domeniul lingvistic, si asta legat in general de ritualul si limabjul liturgic de atunci, deoarece la noi s-a institutionalizat crestinismul pe filiera slavona, cu toate ca aveam un crestinism popular mult mai vechi de aparitia slavilor. Iar impactul cultural al nostru asupra bulgari a fost si el major, de la unele obiceiuri preluate de la noi, pana la asemanarea hainelor populare, cuvinte etc. Sa nu uitam ca, dupa cum am zis, fratii Asanesti care erau vlahi nu au folosit titlul de "han" sau "tar" specific blugarilor, si nici domnitorii de la nord de Dunare, care au folosit fie varianta latina folosita inca de pe vreme romanilor - "domn" sau "domnitor" fie pe cea de inspiratie slava - "voievod" |
#7982
Posted 25 June 2010 - 16:49
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iar cuvantul baba il gasesti si in sarbeste. Cuvantul baba il gasesti si in limba maghiara arhaica, si inseamna "frumos"! Iar in zilele noastre bebelusul se numeste in ungureste Baba. La noi "a" din romana se scrie "á" si se pronunta tot asa ca in limba romana, dar litea "a" (fara virgula) din limba maghiara este o litera care nu se gaseste in abcdarul roman si este foarte greu de pronuntat pentru un nevorbitor de maghiara. |
#7983
Posted 25 June 2010 - 16:50
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The prominent archaeologist from Republic of Macedonia Ivan Mikulèiæ revealed the presence not only of the Kuber group, but an entire Bulgar archaeological culture throughout Macedonia and eastern Albania [7]. He describes the traces of Bulgars in this region, which consist of typical fortresses, burials, various products of metallurgy and pottery (including treasure with supposed Bulgar origin or ownership), lead seals, minted from Kuber, amulets, etc. However, part of this could actually represent traces of Avar presence. They are known to have raided as far south as Macedonia, and the material culture of the Avars was very similar to the Bulgars.[2] Cum vezi, cam tot articolul postat de tine este o varza nationalista bulgareasca. Nicaieri autorii bulgari nu mentioneaza pe latinofonii Balcanilor. La un moment dat vorbesc de originea bulgara, slava si traca. Pentru ei latinofonii Balcanilor sunt ciuma. Se tem de ei. De ce? |
#7984
Posted 25 June 2010 - 19:51
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in esenta esti dus cu pluta. Cuvantul romanesc frumos provine din latina formosus In portugheza se spune formoso. Suntem DACI=slavi bai Fanele, fie ca vrei, fie ca nu vrei, doar fondul cultural il avem latin sud-dunarean, precum si elita razboinica din acea vreme, impreuna cu putina populatie romanica stramutata din Epir, ori Bulgaria, in perioada vlaho-bulgara, vlaho-cumana, ...
Caesar -> Czar -> Tzar -> Tzarat [slava] Caesar -> Kaiser -> Kaiserreich [germana] Tzarat inseamna strict imperiu / imparatie Ce dracu-i in capul tau? Tocmai ca exista o coincidenta, o convergenta a termenilor TERRA cu TzARAT, iar ca sa-ti faci o idee, gandeste-te la faptul caci cuplul TzARA /TzARAT pornesc abia dupa aparitia TzARAT-ului bulgar si doar in spatiul bulgar si mai apoi slav. De ce nu exista termenul TzARA in alte limbi romanice ?!  Nu stiu directia din care provine termenul de TzARA (dinspre bulgara, ori din rom^na), ci doar faptul ca daca TzAR /TzARAT /TzARINA, nu ar fi existat, nici TzARA din rom^na nu ar fi existat, desi am fi avut familia lexicala tzar^na, tzarina, tzearina, in-tzelenit, ..., probabil am fi spus la TzARA, CODRU, munte, plai, camp, teritoriu, mosie, ograda, patrie, paysa, ...
aici ai enuntat originea dacica a maghiarilor/secuilor/ceangailor de astazi. Adica ?! 
Sa nu uitam ca, dupa cum am zis, fratii Asanesti care erau vlahi nu au folosit titlul de "han" sau "tar" specific blugarilor, si nici domnitorii de la nord de Dunare, care au folosit fie varianta latina folosita inca de pe vreme romanilor - "domn" sau "domnitor" fie pe cea de inspiratie slava - "voievod" Tocmai, ... , fie pe cea de inspiratie slava - "voievod" |
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#7985
Posted 25 June 2010 - 20:13
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De ce nu exista termenul TzARA in alte limbi romanice ?! Dar Tierra del Fuego, de exemplu, în ce fel de limbă o fi? |
#7986
Posted 25 June 2010 - 20:21
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Dar Tierra del Fuego, de exemplu, în ce fel de limbă o fi? Edited by fanemusca, 25 June 2010 - 20:21. |
#7987
Posted 25 June 2010 - 20:37
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Dar Tierra del Fuego, de exemplu, în ce fel de limbă o fi? Cred ca ai inteles ce am dorit sa spun ! Nu exista TERMENUL pt. acelasi context, ...Tierra Fuego este mai mult o traducere stiintifica, deoarece pana si ungurii in latina spuneau TERRA ... Nici macar TERITORIUM /teritoire, nu este utilizat cu sensul de tara !!!
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#7988
Posted 25 June 2010 - 21:04
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aici ai enuntat originea dacica a maghiarilor/secuilor/ceangailor de astazi. - Cum te cheama, pui de dac? - Pișta! bun banc. nu al meu, al tau. Edited by ego_zenovius, 25 June 2010 - 21:05. |
#7989
Posted 25 June 2010 - 22:45
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Cred ca ai inteles ce am dorit sa spun ! Nu exista TERMENUL pt. acelasi context, ...Tierra Fuego este mai mult o traducere stiintifica, deoarece pana si ungurii in latina spuneau TERRA ... Nici macar TERITORIUM /teritoire, nu este utilizat cu sensul de tara !!! Prietene, esti pierdut pentru umanitate! Tzar vine din CAESAR In slavoneste se spune Царство [TZARSTVO], in engleza se spune Tsardom, in romaneste se spune Tzarat si, evident, termenul este un neologism imprumutat din franceza... N-ai nimic in cap, pe bune! TZARAT NU ARE NICIO LEGATURA CU TZARA CUM N-ARE NICIO LEGATURA CU TERMENUL EBRAIC INTALNIC IN BIBLIE TZARAATH Acum, Tierra del Fuego este numele dat de Magalhaes atunci cand a descoperit si stramtoarea care-i poarta numele, in 1519 [parca]. In spaniola inseamna literar Tara focurilor. Tu esti normal? Ce traducere stiintifica? Edited by Mount_Yermom, 25 June 2010 - 22:47. |
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#7990
Posted 25 June 2010 - 23:13
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Prietene, esti pierdut pentru umanitate! Tzar vine din CAESAR In slavoneste se spune Царство [TZARSTVO], in engleza se spune Tsardom, in romaneste se spune Tzarat si, evident, termenul este un neologism imprumutat din franceza... N-ai nimic in cap, pe bune! TZARAT NU ARE NICIO LEGATURA CU TZARA CUM N-ARE NICIO LEGATURA CU TERMENUL EBRAIC INTALNIC IN BIBLIE TZARAATH Acum, Tierra del Fuego este numele dat de Magalhaes atunci cand a descoperit si stramtoarea care-i poarta numele, in 1519 [parca]. In spaniola inseamna literar Tara focurilor. Tu esti normal? Ce traducere stiintifica? Nu stiu cu cine te certi, deoarece eu nu am afirmat contrariul, doar puneam in carca termenului TZAR formarea si generalizarea termenului TZARA, desi acesta provine din latina si are o intreaga familie lexicala in spate. Tiera del Ciu-ciu nu spune nimic, arata-mi vreo tara numita astfel in vreo limba neo-latina si nu exemple ... Au spus neo latinii TIERRA del Valahia, TIERRA del Germania, ... ori l-au folosit ca un termen cult din TERRA documentelor scrise in latina ?! Uite un exemplu ca sa-l judeci: in franceza Pays-Bas (Olanda / Tara de Jos) si Angle-terre (Anglia), ultima fiind probabil o exceptie la fel cum prezenta-i tu exemplul cu TIERRA del ... http://dexonline.ro/definitie/taram TĂRẤM, tărâmuri, s.n. (Pop. și fam.) 1. Ținut, regiune, meleag. ♢ (În basme) Celălalt (sau alt) tărâm = regiune îndepărtată (subpământeană), dincolo de lumea reală, populată de ființe mitice. ♦ (Rar) Întindere de teren. 2. Domeniu, sferă de activitate. – Cf. tc. tarim „locuință”, magh. terem „sală mare”. tărîm (-muri), s.m. – 1. Regiune, meleag. – 2. Regiune îndepărtată, lumea cealaltă. – 3. Teren, domeniu. Cuvînt oriental, cf. mag. terem „salon” (Cihac, II, 532; Meyer, Türk. St., I, 45), tc. tarim (Șeineanu, II, 350; Lokotsch 2039), din arab. tarima, cf. sp. tarima. Explicația prin lat. terranus (Lambrior 107) nu are valoare. Ultimul sens este artificial și înv., datorită influenței fr. terrain. Edited by Cyber-sapiens, 25 June 2010 - 23:25. |
#7991
Posted 25 June 2010 - 23:27
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Au spus neo latinii TIERRA del Valahia, TIERRA del Germania, ... ori l-au folosit ca un termen cult din TERRA documentelor scrise in latina ?! Uite un exemplu ca sa-l judeci: in franceza Pays-Bas (Olanda / Tara de Jos) si Angle-terre (Anglia), ultima fiind probabil o exceptie la fel cum prezenta-i tu exemplul cu TIERRA del ... Mercato della Terra di Milano Tierra de Mar Tierra De Cabros Tierra de Castilla Terra de Celanova Terra de Soneira etc. etc. La francezi ai in schimb Pays. De unde paysani. la romani ai in schimb Tara. De unde tarani. Edited by fanemusca, 25 June 2010 - 23:57. |
#7992
Posted 25 June 2010 - 23:59
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daca toata lumea e de acord ca limba tracilor ca si limba latina e o limba indoeuropeana de ce atita polemica pe cuvintul tsara?
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