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#37
Endinion

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View PostRabbit, on 28th December 2011, 14:21, said:

Nu înțeleg de ce spui că „limbile” sunt neinteligibile. Eu înțeleg >80% pentru că majoritatea abaterilor sunt de formă, plus regionalismele de rigoare. Probabil diferențe similare există între alte limbi apropiate, precum ceha cu slovaca, cu mențiunea că acolo s-a hotărât cineva să le standardizeze. Or standardizarea poate face minuni în privința separării unei limbi (cz + sk) sau unificarea alteia (srb + hr); să ne gândim numai la aportul mass-mediei.

Oricum, faptul că vii cu exprimări șocante, de tipul „limba ardelenească” dovedește cât de puțin ai înțeles din postul meu că e irelevantă o discuție pe tema numirii idiomurilor ca limbă, dialect, grai etc.

Spune-i limba, spune-i dialect, grai, varietate, ori cum doresti, pe mine nu ma deranjeaza.
Cat priveste oficializarea unui grai-dialect, da se pot face "minuni", este suficient sa vedem grafia latina a polonezilor si croatilor, fata de grafia slavona a rusilor si sarbilor, sau exprimarea prescurtata in fraza precum avem in cazul arom^nei-machidonei.


View PostRabbit, on 28th December 2011, 14:21, said:

Nu înțeleg de ce spui că „limbile” sunt neinteligibile. Eu înțeleg >80% pentru că majoritatea abaterilor sunt de formă, plus regionalismele de rigoare. Probabil diferențe similare există între alte limbi apropiate, precum ceha cu slovaca, cu mențiunea că acolo s-a hotărât cineva să le standardizeze. Or standardizarea poate face minuni în privința separării unei limbi (cz + sk) sau unificarea alteia (srb + hr); să ne gândim numai la aportul mass-mediei.

Oricum, faptul că vii cu exprimări șocante, de tipul „limba ardelenească” dovedește cât de puțin ai înțeles din postul meu că e irelevantă o discuție pe tema numirii idiomurilor ca limbă, dialect, grai etc.

Daca-ti spun ATENTIE! in rom^na literara-regionala "Mananci crupli?!", tu o sa spui ca intelegi >80% si o sa mananci, ca deh sunt 50-50% sanse sa nu-ti servesc ciuperci otravite si oricum tu mananci orice, nu esti pretentios.

Daca te trimit in oras sa-mi cumperi o caralaba, o loapta si un meter de drod, nici nu vreau sa-mi imaginez cum o sa interpretezi. :cursing:

#38
SDan222

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View Postvlachian, on 24th December 2011, 18:59, said:

prostii.
Gherman a avut dreptate.


modelul e dat de Bucuresti.
Primul care a creat din Bucuresti buricul unui stat centralizat
a fost Bratianu. In perioada inainte de 1914 proaspatul
regat al Romaniei era un stat multietnic.

Era al dreaq de multietnic  :lol:

Romani 6.900.000 (92 %)
Tigani si bulgari 250.000 (3 %)
Evrei 240.000 (3 %)
Turci + greci 40.000 (0.5 %)
Altii 100.000 (1.5 %)

SURSA

Religia : 91.5 % ortodocsi si 9.5 % alte religii

Ce ma distreaza e insa altceva : "In 1899 78 per cent of the population over 7 years of age was illiterate; in 1912 the percentage had fallen to 60.7 per cent". 6 romani din 10 erau analfabeti acum 100 de ani. Iar cea mai alfabetizata regiune era fix ultima incorporata in regat : Dobrogea. Ma intreb cum dreaq de nu si-au dat seama ardelenii ca se unesc cu o tara de analfabeti. Iar daca si-au dat seama si-au acceptat situatia atunci ... sa nu se mai planga. Si-au facut-o cu manuta proprie.

Apropo, cititi cartulia aia pe care-o dau ca sursa. Distruge o gramada de mituri apropo de Romania idilica de dinainte de primul razboi mondial. Eram o tara al dreaq de inapoiata, chiar si dupa standardele vremii. Iar sursa e, probabil, cu mult mai credibila decat lucrarile romanilor 'patrioti' din perioada respectiva.

Edited by SDan222, 30 December 2011 - 11:06.


#39
florrea2

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View PostEndinion, on 29th December 2011, 09:38, said:

Daca te trimit in oras sa-mi cumperi o caralaba, o loapta si un meter de drod, nici nu vreau sa-mi imaginez cum o sa interpretezi. :cursing:
te contrazici aiurea și răstălmăcești. Are perfectă dreptate Rabbit.

#40
Endinion

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Karl von Habsburg
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This article is about the living politician. For other uses, see Archduke Charles of Austria (disambiguation).
Karl von Habsburg

Spouse Baroness Francesca Thyssen-Bornemisza
Issue
Eleonore Habsburg-Lothringen
Ferdinand Zvonimir Habsburg-Lothringen
Gloria Habsburg-Lothringen
Full name
Karl Thomas Robert Maria Franziskus Georg Bahnam
House House of Habsburg
Father Otto von Habsburg
Mother Princess Regina of Saxe-Meiningen
Born 11 January 1961 (age 50)
Starnberg, Bavaria, Germany
Karl von Habsburg (Given names: Karl Thomas Robert Maria Franziskus Georg Bahnam; born 11 January 1961), referred to in Austria as Karl Habsburg-Lothringen, in France as Charles de Habsbourg-Lorraine, in the Czech Lands as Karel Habsbursko-Lotrinskę, in Hungary as Habsburg Károly, and by his royal name as Archduke Karl of Austria,[1][2], or Karl II of Austria or Károly V of Hungary is an Austrian politician, and the current Head of the House of Habsburg and the Sovereign of the Order of the Golden Fleece. Born in Starnberg, Bavaria, Germany, he is the son of Otto von Habsburg and Princess Regina of Saxe-Meiningen, and the grandson of the last Austrian emperor, Charles I. He served as a Member of the European Parliament for the Austrian People's Party 1996–1999.
Contents  [hide]
1 Political career
2 House of Habsburg
3 Business career
4 Private life
5 Ancestry
6 Notes
7 References
[edit]Political career

Since 1986, Karl von Habsburg has been president of the Austrian branch of the Paneuropean Union. After studying law for 12 years, in 1992/1993, he had a TV game show with Austrian public TV broadcaster ORF, called Who is Who.[3][4] In October 1996, he was elected to the European Parliament for the Austrian People's Party (ÖVP). Two years later, it emerged that the ÖVP's election campaign had benefitted from 30,000 euros of World Vision donation money via Paneurope Austria while Karl von Habsburg sat on the board of World Vision Austria, apparently without noticing the director's dubious activities.[5]
His father exacerbated the situation when he complained that his son was being attacked unfairly and drew a parallel between the name "Habsburg" and a yellow badge.[5] ÖVP did not nominate Karl von Habsburg again for the 1999 elections.[6][3] In 2004, Karl von Habsburg paid 37,000 euros to the new World Vision Austria branch.[6]
On 19 January 2002, he was appointed Director General of UNPO (Unrepresented Nations and Peoples Organization) by the UNPO Steering Committee.[7] Since 7 December 2008, he is the President of the Association of National Committees of the Blue Shield.[8]
[edit]House of Habsburg

Austrian Imperial Family

HI&RH Archduke Karl
HI&RH Archduchess Francesca
HI&RH Archduchess Eleonore
HI&RH Archduke Ferdinand
HI&RH Archduchess Gloria
HI&RH The Hereditary Countess of Neipperg
HI&RH The Duchess of Santangelo
HI&RH Archduchess Michaela
HI&RH Archduchess Gabriela
HI&RH Archduchess Walburga
HI&RH Archduke Georg
HI&RH Archduchess Eilika
HI&RH Archduchess Zsófia
HI&RH Archduchess Ildiko
HI&RH Archduke Károly-Konstantin
Extended family[show]
Extended family[show]
Extended family[show]
v d e
On 30 November 2000 Karl's father transferred over to him the position of Head and Sovereign of the Order of the Golden Fleece.[9] In 2005, Karl von Habsburg filed an unsuccessful suit before Austria's constitutional court after a failed attempt to have former properties of the Habsburg family returned. The family had been expropriated by the First Republic, this had in part been reverted under Austrofascism, and then the Nazis had expropriated them again. The family now tried to get their former property returned under rules for victims of the Nazi regime. The attempt failed because the expropriation still has constitutional rank.[10]
On 1 January 2007, his father, Otto von Habsburg, relinquished his status as the Head of the House of Habsburg, a status which then devolved on Karl.[11]
Habsburg's full legal name in Austria is Karl Thomas Robert Maria Franziskus Georg Bahnam Habsburg-Lothringen. All noble, royal, and imperial titles are illegal in Austria and in Hungary, and the family does not use them in these countries.[fn 1]
[edit]Business career

Karl von Habsburg is one of the three co-founders of BG Privatinvest, a Vienna-based investment company. In December 2010 the company acquired the two most important Bulgarian daily newspapers, Dneven Trud and 24 Chasa.[12] After ongoing conflicts with Bulgarian partners, BG Privatinvest sold the newspapers in April 2011.[13]
[edit]Private life

Karl von Habsburg was born in Germany. He was baptised in Pöcking, Bavaria, as Archduke Karl of Austria (Erzherzog Karl von Österreich), the name entered in the baptismal records.[14] At the time of his birth, his father was de facto stateless and possessed a Spanish diplomatic passport, while his mother was a German citizen. Like his father and siblings, he was banished from Austria for the first years of his life.
He has lived in Salzburg, Austria, since 1981. He resides in Casa Austria, formerly called Villa Swoboda, in Anif, near the city of Salzburg.[15]
On 31 January 1993, he married Francesca Thyssen-Bornemisza, the only daughter of Baron Hans Heinrich Thyssen-Bornemisza, a European industrialist and his second wife, Fiona Campbell Walter. Karl and Francesca have three children:
Eleonore Jelena Maria del Pilar Iona, born 28 February 1994 in Salzburg
Ferdinand Zvonimir Maria Balthus Keith Michal Otto Antal Bahnam Leonhard, born 21 June 1997 in Salzburg
Gloria Maria Bogdana Paloma Regina Fiona Gabriela, born 15 October 1999 in Salzburg; her godmother is Gloria, Princess of Thurn and Taxis.[16]
Karl and Francesca separated in 2003.[17]
In July 1998 an Austrian court fined Karl von Habsburg 180,000 schillings ($14,300); he had failed to declare immediately to customs officials that he had an antique diadem in his luggage when he crossed the border from Switzerland in July 1996.[18] The diadem belonged to his wife who intended to wear it at a wedding ceremony.
[edit]Ancestry

[show]Ancestors of Karl von Habsburg
[edit]Notes

^ Royal and noble titles were abolished in Austria and Hungary by the Adelsaufhebungsgesetz of 3 April 1919.[1] The family name of Karl von Habsburg's father was claimed to be Habsburg-Lothringen by an Austrian ministerial decision in 1957 [2] and by a German court (Landgericht Würzburg) on 16 July 1958. However, Otto was at the time de facto stateless, living in Germany with a Spanish diplomatic passport, and was denied both entry to Austria and an Austrian passport. Otto's official name as a German citizen from 1978 was Otto von Habsburg.


Otto von Habsburg
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Otto von Habsburg
Crown Prince of Austria, Hungary, Croatia and Bohemia

Otto von Habsburg in 2004
Spouse Princess Regina of Saxe-Meiningen
Detail Issue
Andrea von Habsburg
Monika von Habsburg
Michaela von Habsburg
Gabriela von Habsburg
Walburga von Habsburg
Karl von Habsburg
Georg von Habsburg
Full name
Franz Joseph Otto Robert Maria Anton Karl Max Heinrich Sixtus Xavier Felix Renatus Ludwig Gaetan Pius Ignatius von Habsburg[1]
House House of Habsburg-Lorraine
Father Charles I of Austria
Mother Zita of Bourbon-Parma
Born 20 November 1912
Reichenau an der Rax, Austria-Hungary
Died 4 July 2011 (aged 98)
Pöcking, Germany
Burial 16 July 2011 (body); 17 July 2011 (heart)
Imperial Crypt (body); Pannonhalma Archabbey (heart)
Signature
Religion Roman Catholic
Otto von Habsburg[2] (20 November 1912 – 4 July 2011),[3][4] also known by his royal name as Archduke Otto of Austria, was the last Crown Prince of Austria-Hungary from 1916 until the dissolution of the empire in 1918, a realm which comprised modern-day Austria, Hungary, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Slovenia, and parts of Italy, Montenegro, Poland, Romania, Serbia and Ukraine. He remained the Crown Prince of Hungary until also the deposition of the Habsburgs in Hungary in 1921. He subsequently became the pretender to the former thrones, Head of the Imperial House of Habsburg, and Sovereign of the Order of the Golden Fleece[5] in 1922. He resigned as Sovereign of the Golden Fleece in 2000 and as head of the Imperial House in 2007.
The eldest son of Charles I, the last Emperor of Austria and King of Hungary, and his wife, Zita of Bourbon-Parma, Otto was born as third in line to the thrones, as His Imperial and Royal Highness Archduke and Prince Imperial Otto of Austria, Prince Royal of Hungary, Croatia and Bohemia. With his father's accession to the thrones in 1916, he was himself likely to become the Emperor. As his father never abdicated, Otto was considered by himself, his family and Austro-Hungarian legitimists to be the rightful Emperor-King from 1922.[6] Had the dual monarchy still existed, had his father still died young, and had he still lived to the age of 98, he might have had an 89-year reign, the longest verifiable by date.[7]
Otto was active on the Austrian and European political stage from the 1930s, both by promoting the cause of Habsburg restoration and as an early proponent of European integration—being thoroughly disgusted with nationalism—and a fierce opponent of Nazism and communism.[3][8] He has been described as one of the leaders of the Austrian anti-Nazi resistance.[9] After the 1938 Anschluss, monarchists were severely persecuted in Austria, and—sentenced to death by the Nazis—Otto fled to the United States, with a visa issued by Aristides de Sousa Mendes.
Otto von Habsburg was Vice President (1957–1973) and President (1973–2004) of the International Paneuropean Union, and served as a Member of the European Parliament for the Christian Social Union of Bavaria (CSU) 1979–1999. In 1961, Francisco Franco offered him the crown of Spain, but he declined on account of the Habsburg dynasty's long absence from the Spanish throne, and recommended Juan Carlos.[10] As a newly elected Member of the European Parliament in 1979, Otto had an empty chair set up for the countries on the other side of the Iron Curtain in the European Parliament, and took a strong interest in the countries behind the Iron Curtain during his tenure. Otto von Habsburg played a central role in the revolutions of 1989, as a co-initiator of the Pan-European Picnic. Later he would be a strong supporter of the EU membership of central and eastern European countries.[11] A noted intellectual, he has published several books on historical and political affairs. Otto has been described as one of the "architects of the European idea and of European integration" together with Robert Schuman, Konrad Adenauer, and Alcide De Gasperi.[12]
Otto was exiled in 1918 and grew up mostly in Spain. His devout Catholic mother raised him according to the old curriculum of Austria-Hungary, preparing him to become a Catholic monarch. During his life in exile, he lived in Switzerland, Madeira, Spain, Belgium, France, the United States, and from 1954 until his death, finally in Bavaria (Germany), in the residence Villa Austria. At the time of his death, he was a citizen of Germany, Austria, Hungary and Croatia, having earlier been stateless de jure and de facto and possessed passports of Monaco, the Order of Malta, and Spain.
His funeral took place at St. Stephen's Cathedral in Vienna on 16 July 2011; after a solemn requiem mass at Saint John Cantius in Chicago;[13] he was entombed in the Imperial Crypt in Vienna and his heart buried in Pannonhalma Archabbey in Hungary.
Contents  [hide]
1 Early life
2 Years in exile
3 World War II
4 After World War II
5 Political career
6 Death and funeral
7 Family
8 Titles and styles
9 Ancestry
10 Honours and awards
10.1 Habsburg/Austrian orders and awards
10.2 Other dynastic orders
10.3 Governmental orders and awards
10.4 Non-governmental awards
10.5 Academic awards
11 Footnotes
12 Bibliography
13 External links
[edit]Early life



Crown Prince Otto in Budapest in 1916
Otto was born at Villa Wartholz in Reichenau an der Rax, Austria-Hungary. He was baptised Franz Joseph Otto Robert Maria Anton Karl Max Heinrich Sixtus Xavier Felix Renatus Ludwig Gaetan Pius Ignatius on 25 November 1912 at Villa Wartholz by the Prince-Archbishop of Vienna, Cardinal Franz Xaver Nagl. His godfather was the Emperor Franz Joseph I of Austria (represented by Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria); his godmother was his grandmother Infanta Maria Antonia of Portugal.[14]
In November 1916, Otto became Crown Prince of Austria, Hungary and Bohemia when his father, Archduke Charles, acceded to the throne. However, in 1918, at the end of the First World War, the monarchies were abolished, the Republics of Austria and Hungary founded instead, and the family was forced into exile in Madeira.[15] Hungary did become a kingdom again, but Charles was never to regain the throne. Instead, Miklós Horthy ruled as regent until 1944, in a kingdom without a king.
He spoke German, Hungarian, Croatian, English, Spanish, French and Latin fluently. In later life, he would write some 40 books in German, Hungarian, French and Spanish.[16] His mother made him learn many languages because she believed he one day might rule over many lands.[17][18]
[edit]Years in exile

Otto's family spent the subsequent years in Switzerland, and on the Portuguese island of Madeira, where Charles died prematurely in 1922, leaving the 9-year-old Otto pretender to the throne. On his father's deathbed, his mother, then-Empress Dowager Zita, told the 9-year old, "your father is now sleeping the eternal sleep—you are now Emperor and King".[19] The family eventually relocated to the Basque town of Lekeitio, where 40 Spanish grandees bought them a villa. Meanwhile, the Austrian parliament had officially expelled the Habsburg dynasty and confiscated all the official property (Habsburg Law of 3 April 1919).


Otto von Habsburg (left) and Count von Degenfeld in 1933.
In 1935, he graduated with a PhD degree in Political and Social Sciences from the University of Louvain in Belgium.[20] From his father's death throughout the remainder of his time in exile, Otto considered himself the rightful emperor of Austria and stated this on many occasions. In 1937 he wrote,[21]
“I know very well that the overwhelming majority of the Austrian population would like me to assume the heritage of the peace emperor, my beloved father, rather earlier than later. (...) The [Austrian] people have never cast a vote in favor of the republic. They have remained silent as long as they were exhausted from the long fight, and taken by surprise by the audacity of the revolutionaries of 1918 and 1919. They shook off their resignation when they realized that the revolution had raped their right to life and freedom. (...) Such trust places a heavy burden on me. I accept it readily. God willing, the hour of reunion between the Duke and the people will arrive soon.”
He continued to enjoy considerable public support in Austria; from 1931 to 1938, 1,603 Austrian municipalities named Otto an honorary citizen.[22]
[edit]World War II

Otto strongly opposed the Anschluss of Austria to Nazi Germany. In 1938 he requested Austrian Chancellor Kurt Schuschnigg to resist the Nazis and supported an international intervention,[8] and offered to return from exile to take over the reins of government in order to repel Hitler.[23] According to Gerald Warner, "Austrian Jews were among the strongest supporters of a Habsburg restoration, since they believed the dynasty would give the nation sufficient resolve to stand up to the Third Reich".[24]
Following the German annexation of Austria, Otto was sentenced to death by the Nazis.[1] As ordered by Adolf Hitler, his personal property and that of the House of Habsburg were confiscated and not given back after the war.[25] The so-called "Habsburg Law", which had previously been repealed, was reintroduced by the fiercely republican and anti-monarchist Nazis. The leaders of the Austrian legitimist movement, i.e. supporters of Otto, were arrested by the Nazis and largely executed (Stefan Zweig's novella The Royal Game is based on these events). Otto's cousins Max, Duke of Hohenberg, and Prince Ernst of Hohenberg were arrested in Vienna by the Gestapo and sent to Dachau concentration camp where they remained throughout the Nazi rule. Otto was involved in helping around 15,000 Austrians,[26] including thousands of Austrian Jews, flee the country at the beginning of the Second World War.[20][27]
Rudolf Hess ordered that Otto was to be executed immediately if caught.[28] After the German invasion of France the family left the French capital and fled to Portugal with a visa issued by Aristides de Sousa Mendes, the Portuguese consul in Bordeaux. For his own safety, he left the European continent and lived from 1940 to 1944 in Washington, D.C. In his war-time exile in the United States, he worked to stop or limit the bombing campaign against Austria.[26] In the United States, he initiated the Austrian Day and was able to get Austria included in a postage stamp series on "Occupied Nations". He obtained the support of Winston Churchill for a conservative "Danube Federation", in effect a restoration of Austria-Hungary, but Joseph Stalin put an end to these plans.[23] He lobbied for the recognition of an Austrian government-in-exile, for the rights of the German-speaking population of South Tyrol, against the deportation of the German-speaking inhabitants of Bohemia and eastern Europe, and against letting Stalin rule Eastern Europe.[29]
In 1941, Adolf Hitler personally revoked the citizenship of Otto, his mother, and his siblings, and the imperial-royal family found themselves stateless.[30]
[edit]After World War II

At the end of the war, Otto returned to Europe and lived for some years in France and Spain.
In 1949, he ennobled several people, granting them Austrian noble titles, although not recognized by the Austrian republic. As he did not possess a passport and was effectively stateless, he was given a passport of the Principality of Monaco, thanks to the intervention of Charles de Gaulle in 1946. As a Knight of Malta, the Order also issued him a diplomatic passport. Later, he was also given a Spanish diplomatic passport.[31]
On 8 May 1956, Otto was recognized as an Austrian citizen by the provincial government of Lower Austria.[32] The Austrian Interior Ministry approved this declaration of Citizenship, but on the condition that he accept the name Dr. Otto Habsburg-Lothringen, on 8 February 1957. But this only entiled him to a passport "valid in every country but Austria".[33] Otto had already submitted a written statement, on 21 February 1958, that he and his family would renounce all privileges formerly entitled a member of the House of Habsburg, but this first declaration did not satisfy the requirements of the Habsburg Law. He officially declared his loyalty to the Republic of Austria on 5 June 1961. His second and formal renunciation of Habsburg privilege, on 31 May 1961, was eventually ruled satistfactory and in compliance with the Habsburg Law in 1963. His wife and he were then issued a Certified Proof of Citizenship on 20 July 1965. The Interior Ministry granted him an Austrian passport on 1 June 1966. The legal proceedings that forbade him entry to the country were now at an end. He traveled to Innsbruck, Tyrol, Austria, for the first time since his exile, to visit the grave of Archduke Eugen of Austria, on 31 October 1966. Later, he visited Vienna on 5 July 1967.[34][35][36][37][38]
[edit]Political career



Otto von Habsburg giving a speech
In a declaration dated 31 May 1961, Otto renounced all claims to the Austrian throne and proclaimed himself "a loyal citizen of the republic", a move that he made only after much hesitation and certainly "for purely practical reasons".[39] In a 2007 interview on the occasion of his approaching 95th birthday, Otto stated:
"This was such an infamy, I'd rather never have signed it. They demanded that I abstain from politics. I would not have dreamed of complying. Once you have tasted the opium of politics, you never get rid of it."[40]
The Habsburg Law of 3 April 1919 stated that Charles' descendants could only return to Austria if they renounced their royal claims and accepted the status of private citizens. The Austrian administrative court found on 24 May 1963 that Otto's statement was sufficient to meet this requirement. However, several elements in the country, particularly the Socialists, were ill-disposed to welcoming back the heir of the deposed dynasty. This touched off political infighting and civil unrest that almost precipitated a crisis of state, and later became known as the "Habsburg Crisis." It was only on 1 June 1966, after the People's Party won an outright majority in the national election, that Otto was issued an Austrian passport, and was finally able to visit his home country again on 31 October 1966 for the first time in 48 years.[41]
An early advocate of a unified Europe, Otto was president of the International Paneuropean Union from 1973 to 2004.[42] He served from 1979 until 1999 as a Member of the European Parliament for the conservative Christian Social Union of Bavaria (CSU) party, eventually becoming the senior member of the European Parliament. He was also a member of the Mont Pelerin Society.[43] He was a major supporter of the expansion of the European Union from the beginning and especially of the acceptance of Hungary, Slovenia and Croatia. During his time in the European Parliament, he was involved in a fracas initiated by fellow MEP Ian Paisley.[44] In 1988, Pope John Paul II had just begun a speech to the Parliament, and Protestant Paisley shouted at the Pope, "I denounce you as the Antichrist!", holding a poster reading "Pope John Paul II Antichrist". Otto snatched Paisley's banner and, along with other MEPs, helped eject him from the chamber.[45][46]
He was one of the men instrumental in organising the so called Pan-European Picnic at the Hungary-Austria border on 19 August 1989.[3] This event is considered a milestone in the collapse of Communist dictatorships in Europe.[47]
He was reportedly a patron of the Three Faiths Forum, a group which aims to encourage friendship, goodwill and understanding amongst people of the three monotheistic faiths of Christianity, Judaism and Islam in the United Kingdom and elsewhere.[citation needed]


Otto (first right) with Helmut Kohl (third right)
In December 2006, he observed that, "The catastrophe of 11 September 2001 struck the United States more profoundly than any of us, whence a certain mutual incomprehension. Until then, the United States felt itself secure, persuaded of its power to bombard any enemy, without anyone being able to strike back. That sentiment vanished in an instant. Americans understand viscerally for the first time the risks they face."[48]
On 5 July 2007, Otto von Habsburg received the Freedom of the City of London from the hands of Sir Gavyn Arthur, a former Lord Mayor of London.[49]
He was known as a supporter of the rights of refugees and displaced people in Europe, notably of the ethnic Germans displaced from Bohemia where he was once the Crown Prince.[50] He was a jury member of the Franz Werfel Human Rights Award.[51] He also held Francisco Franco in a high regard and praised him for helping refugees, stating that he was "a dictator of the south American type, not totalitarian like Hitler or Stalin".[10]
In 2002, he was named the first ever honorary member of the European People's Party group.[52]
On the 2008 anniversary of the Anschluss,[53][54][55][56][57] Otto von Habsburg made a very controversial statement, as part of his "1938 Remembrance Day" address before Parliament that "there is no country in Europe that has a better claim to be a victim of the Nazis than Austria".[58] The context of this statement left little room for the media to interpret it in a better light. Although his speech received an ovation,[59] the Habsburgs were once again distanced from the popular opinion of the Austrian people, as demonstrated in public protest, media criticism and disapproval voiced by Austrian politicians.[60] SPÖ Defence Minister Norbert Darabos was quoted as saying that the remarks were "unacceptable", "a veritable democratic-political scandal" and that he had "insulted the victims of National Socialism". Otto von Habsburg was also quoted as saying that "a discussion as to whether Austria was an accomplice or a victim is an outrage".[61] ÖVP military spokesman Walter Murauer defended Otto's statement at the time[62] Murauer claimed that there was "another reality behind the mass of people who listened to Hitler on the Heldenplatz". Meaning the "thousands in the resistance and thousands in prison waiting to be transported to Dachau" near Munich. Murauer also recalled that Engelbert Dollfuß had been the only head of government in Europe to have been murdered by the Nazis. Murauer advised Darabos "to avoid populist pot-shots against an honourable European of the highest calibre." His son, Karl von Habsburg, also defended his father's words, in a 2011 statement, stating that "there were guilty parties in practically every country".[63]
[edit]Death and funeral

Main article: Death and funeral of Otto von Habsburg


Otto and Regina lying in repose in the Capuchin Church, Vienna, draped with the Habsburg flag. The guards of honour are dressed in Austro-Hungarian uniforms.
After the death of his wife, Regina in 2010, Otto stopped appearing in public. He died at the age of 98 on Monday, 4 July 2011, at his home in Pöcking, Germany. His spokeswoman reported that he died "peacefully and without pain in his sleep". He was survived by his younger brother, Felix, as well as 7 children, 22 grandchildren and 2 great-grandchildren.[3][6]
On 5 July, his body was laid in repose in the Church of St. Ulrich near his home in Pöcking, Bavaria, and a massive 13-day period of mourning started in several countries formerly part of Austria-Hungary.[64] Otto's coffin was draped with the Habsburg flag decorated with the imperial–royal coats of arms of Austria and Hungary in addition to the Habsburg family coat of arms.
In line with the Habsburg family tradition, Otto von Habsburg was buried in the family's crypt in Vienna, while his heart was buried in a monastery in Pannonhalma, Hungary.[6]
[edit]Family



4-year old Crown Prince Otto of Hungary in Budapest in 1916, attending his parents' coronation as King and Queen of Hungary, painted by Gyula Éder.
He was married to Princess Regina of Saxe-Meiningen from 1951 until her death in 2010. At the time of his death, he left seven children, 23 grandchildren and 2 great-grandchildren (as of 2011):[15]
Andrea von Habsburg (born 1953). Married Hereditary Count Karl Eugen von Neipperg. They have three sons, two daughters and two grandchildren.
Monika von Habsburg (born 1954). Married Luis María Gonzaga Gonzaga de Casanova-Cárdenas y Barón, Duke of Santangelo, Marquess of Elche, Count of Lodosa and Grandee of Spain, who is a descendant of Infanta Luisa Teresa of Spain, Duchess of Sessa and sister of Francis, King-Consort of Spain.
Michaela von Habsburg, born on 13 September 1954 (age 57). Monika's twin sister. Married firstly Eric Alba Teran d'Antin, and secondly Count Hubertus of Kageneck. She has two sons and a daughter from her first marriage. Twice divorced.[citation needed]
Gabriela von Habsburg, born on 14 October 1956 (age 55)
Married Christian Meister in 1978, divorced in 1997.[citation needed]
Walburga von Habsburg, born on 5 October 1958 (age 53)
Married Count Archibald Douglas
Karl von Habsburg, born on 11 January 1961 (age 50) -
Married Baroness Francesca Thyssen-Bornemisza, born on 7 June 1958 (age 53)
Georg von Habsburg, born on 16 December 1964 (age 47)
Married Duchess Eilika of Oldenburg, born on 22 August 1972 (age 39)
Otto lived in retirement at the Villa Austria in Pöcking bei Starnberg, Starnberg, near the lake Starnberger See, Upper Bavaria, Bavaria, Germany.
[edit]Titles and styles

20 November 1912 – 21 November 1916: His Imperial and Royal Highness Archduke and Prince Imperial Otto of Austria, Prince Royal of Hungary, Croatia and Bohemia
21 November 1916 – 12 November 1918: His Imperial and Royal Highness The Crown Prince of Austria, Hungary, Croatia and Bohemia
12 November 1918 – 4 July 2011: His Imperial and Royal Highness Crown Prince Otto of Austria, Hungary, Croatia and Bohemia
Titles of pretence from 1 April 1922
By the Grace of God Emperor of Austria; King of Hungary and Bohemia, Dalmatia, Croatia, Slavonia, Galicia and Lodomeria; King of Jerusalem etc.; Archduke of Austria; Grand Duke of Tuscany and Cracow; Duke of Lorraine, Salzburg, Styria, Carinthia, Carniola and Bukowina; Grand Prince of Transylvania, Margrave of Moravia; Duke of Silesia, Modena, Parma, Piacenza, Guastalla, Auschwitz and Zator, Teschen, Friuli, Dubrovnik and Zadar; Princely Count of Habsburg and Tyrol, of Kyburg, Gorizia and Gradisca; Prince of Trent and Brixen; Margrave of Upper and Lower Lusatia and Istria; Count of Hohenems, Feldkirch, Bregenz, Sonnenburg etc.; Lord of Trieste, Kotor and the Windic March, Grand Voivod of the Voivodeship of Serbia etc. etc.[65]
Official in Austria
20 November 1912 – 21 November 1916: His Imperial and Royal Highness Archduke and Prince Imperial Otto of Austria, Prince Royal of Hungary, Croatia and Bohemia
21 November 1916 – 12 November 1918: His Imperial and Royal Highness The Crown Prince of Austria, Hungary, Croatia and Bohemia
12 November 1918–1919: Otto Kaiserlicher Prinz, Erzherzog von Österreich, Königlicher Prinz von Ungarn
1919–1941 (citizenship revoked by Adolf Hitler in 1941): Herr Otto Habsburg-Lothringen
(1941–1965 Otto did not have citizenship in any country, but he had a passport of Monaco from 1946 as His Imperial and Royal Highness Otto von Habsburg, plus a passport of the Order of Malta and a diplomatic passport of Spain under the same name)
1965–4 July 2011: Doktor Otto Habsburg-Lothringen
Official in Germany[citation needed]
12 November 1918 – 4 July 2011: Otto Kaiserlicher Prinz Erzherzog von Österreich Königlicher Prinz von Ungarn
[edit]Ancestry

[show]Ancestors of Otto von Habsburg
[edit]Honours and awards

[edit]Habsburg/Austrian orders and awards
Order of the Golden Fleece (Austrian Branch)
Sovereign (1922–2000)
Knight (1916)
Grand Cross of the Royal Hungarian Order of Saint Stephen
Grand Cross of the Imperial Austrian Order of Leopold
Badge of the Tyrolean Nobility Register
[edit]Other dynastic orders
House of Bourbon-Two Sicilies: Grand Cross of the Order of Saint Januarius
House of Braganza: Knight Grand Cross of the Order of the Immaculate Conception of Vila Viçosa
House of Savoy: Knight of the Order of the Most Holy Annunciation
House of Wittelsbach: Grand Cross of the Order of Saint Hubert
[edit]Governmental orders and awards
Bavaria: Bearer of the Bavarian Order of Merit (1978)
Croatia: Grand Cross of the Grand Order of King Dmitar Zvonimir (1996)
Estonia: 1st Class of the Order of the Cross of Terra Mariana (1996)
France: Grand Cross of the Legion of Honour (2009)[66][67]
Germany: Grand Cross of the Order of Merit of the Federal Republic of Germany (1987)
Holy See: Grand Cross of the Order of St. Gregory the Great (1980)
Holy See: Grand Cross of the Order of St. Sylvester
Hungary: Grand Cross of the Order of Merit of Hungary (1999)
Kosovo: Golden Medal of Liberty
Latvia: Commander of the Order of Three Stars
Lithuania: Commander of the Order of the Lithuanian Grand Duke Gediminas
Luxembourg: Knight of the Order of the Gold Lion of the House of Nassau
Macedonia: Order of Merit
Pakistan: Commander with Star of the Order of Hilal Quaid Azam (1993)
Rhodesia: Grand-Commander of the Legion of Honour
San Marino: Grand Cross of the Order of St. Agatha (2002)
SMOM: Bailiff Grand Cross of Honour and Devotion of the Sovereign Military Order of Malta (1959)[68]
Spain: Grand Cross of the Order of Charles III (1951)
Spain: Grand Cross of the Order of Africa
South Tyrol: Recipient of the Grand Order of Merit
[edit]Non-governmental awards
Teutonic Knights: Honorary Knight of the Teutonic Order
Lower Austria: Cross of Honour in Gold of the Chapter of Lilienfeld
Paneuropean Union: Special Rank of the European Medal of the Paneuropean Union Germany
Sudetendeutsche Landsmannschaft: European Charles Price of the Sudetendeutsche Landsmannschaft
Palmetto Guard: Posthumously elected to membership in the Palmetto Guard.
[edit]Academic awards
Medal of the Académie des Sciences Morales et Politiques, Institut de France, Paris, France
Medal of the Academia Mejicana de Derecho Internacional, Mexico
Medal of the Royal Moroccan Academy, Morocco
Medal of the Academia da Cultura Portuguesa, Lisbon, Portugal
Medal of the Real Academia de Ciencias Morales y Políticas, Madrid, Spain
Honorary Professor of the University of Bogota, Colombia
Honorary Fellow of the University of Jerusalem, Israel
Honorary Member of the Instituto de Estudios da Marinha, Portugal
Honorary Senator of the University of Maribor, Slovenia
Honorary Doctor of the University of Osijek, Croatia
Honorary Doctor of the University of Nancy, Lorraine, France
Honorary Doctor of the University of Turku, Finland)
Honorary Doctor of the University of Budapest, Hungary
Honorary Doctor of the University of Pécs, Hungary
Honorary Doctor of the University of Veszprém, Hungary
Honorary Doctor of the University of Jerusalem, Israel
Honorary Doctor of the University of Ferrara, Italy
Honorary Doctor of the University of Skopje, Macedonia
Honorary Doctor of the University of Cincinnati, Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Honorary Doctor of the University of Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
Honorary Doctor of the University of Tampa, Tampa, Florida, USA
Honorary Doctor of the Chernivtsi University, Ukraine
Honorary Master in Law and Economics of the IMADEC University, Vienna, Austria
[edit]Footnotes

^ a b Dan van der Vat (4 July 2011). "Otto von Habsburg obituary". London: The Guardian. Retrieved 2011-07-06.
^ Otto was born as His Imperial and Royal Highness Archduke and Prince Imperial Otto of Austria, Prince Royal of Hungary, Croatia and Bohemia, and became the Crown Prince of these countries in 1916. After 1918, titles of nobility were formally abolished in Austria, thus von Habsburg turned into Habsburg. The same applied after Habsburg became a German citizen (see Printausgabe der deutschen Wochenzeitung die Zeit vom 21.7.2011, p.36). By courtesy, he would also be referred to by European courts by his former style and title, i.e. as His Imperial and Royal Highness Archduke Otto of Austria. In the Austrian republic, the authorities referred to him, from 1919, as Otto Habsburg-Lothringen, a name he never used himself. However, Otto did not live in Austria after 1918 and his citizenship there was revoked by Adolf Hitler in 1941, making him stateless. His Austrian citizenship was only restored in 1965. Otto later became a citizen of or was issued passports of multiple other countries, where his official name was Otto von Habsburg. As a Member of the European Parliament for Germany, his official name in the European Union was Otto von Habsburg. On his website, he used the style and name His Imperial and Royal Highness Dr. Otto von Habsburg.

#41
Punishing

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Există și un motiv pentru care ai postat o tonă de text fără nicio relevanță la topic?

Nu puteai să dai link sau măcar să explici care-i treaba?

#42
NASTYPRIMUL

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Nu are ce sa caute federalizarea Rominiei (Romaniei, sau teritoriul Daciei). Nu se justifica, nici etnic, nici cultural, nici economic.
Culmea, in ultimii ani, si clima s-a egalizat. Transilvania si fostele principate.

Sa nu mai spunem ca sintem intr-o Europa unita.

Edited by NASTYPRIMUL, 01 January 2012 - 01:36.


#43
Endinion

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View PostNASTYPRIMUL, on 1st January 2012, 01:34, said:

Nu are ce sa caute federalizarea Rominiei (Romaniei, sau teritoriul Daciei). Nu se justifica, nici etnic, nici cultural, nici economic.
Culmea, in ultimii ani, si clima s-a egalizat. Transilvania si fostele principate.
Sa nu mai spunem ca sintem intr-o Europa unita.

Se sustine economic, oricum Bucurestiul nu ar pierii, el ar ramane o piata de desfacere formidabila pentru Muntenia-Oltenia ori pentru Vechiul Regat, cat si o piata de productie.

Eu nu deplang statul rom^n, ci soarta nemiloasa a populatiei rom^nesti. Practic nu ma intereseaza daca in viitor va exista ori ba un stat numit Rom^nia cu o populatie de 5-6 milioane de indivizi, diaspora va conta mai mult, acolo va fi Rom^nia adevarata oriunde se va afla, cam ca in genul Armeniei si Israelului, unde armenii si evreii sunt in patria lor "diaspora" America.

#44
cipri1981

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View PostEndinion, on 23rd December 2011, 20:45, said:

Rom^nia greseste mult de tot, cu Basarabia este cumva pardonabil, dar o face cu Ardealul cu multa seninatate; in perioada interbelica si in perioada comunista, Ardealul a fost discriminat sub raportul dezvoltarii economice, a fost sacrificat deoarece Rom^nia Regatului se temea ca daca ar lasa Ardealul sa se dezvolte direct proportional cu resursele sale, ar putea pierde totul la o adica ca in 1940, cu tot cu investitile facute; s-au gandit probabil ca i-ar imbogati pe unguri si pe sasi si secui ?!
Mizeaza pe frica de unguri si pe patriotismul ardelenilor, adica pe prostirea rom^nilor tinandu-i in saracie.

Nu zic ca oltenii, muntenii si moldovenii ar traii mai bine, doar ca acestia nu acced in mod firesc spre secesionism, in plus Bucurestiul le apartine, la fel orasele portuare de la Marea Neagra si orasele mari cladite in comunism.

Eu cred ca Rom^nia daca va dori sa existe pe viitor va trebui sa aiba o structura federala.



A, acum am inteles de ce ai deschis topicul asta.

#45
NASTYPRIMUL

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Va fi indivizibila Rominia (Romania). Indiferent de dorintele secesioniste ale unora.

#46
Infinitty

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View Postflorrea2, on 5th January 2012, 22:54, said:

am mai citit prostii pe aici dar  o idee asa de cretina inca nu am vazut; ideea ca eu as locui in....izdrael! Si asta dupa ce s-a scris aici de zeci de ori ca eu locuiesc in Germania. Deutschland.
Nu mai zic de mirlania exprimarii....Zi mirlan si trage apa! De ce oare nu se iau masuri cu astfel de elemente?

de ce? Lumineaza-ma si pe mine.
vrei sa zici ca impricinatul ar fi tigan? Dupa cum se exprima cam ai dreptate, totusi nu putem fi siguri.

Are ceva... "neuronal", s-a vazut de la bun inceput dupa cum isi alege avatarii. ... si acuma are ceva cu "fuck y... f...k in mouth pe toata lumea"! e plecat cu pluta. Un comportament demn de un schizoid. :puke:

Edited by Infinitty, 06 January 2012 - 11:01.


#47
vlachian

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View PostNASTYPRIMUL, on 6th January 2012, 06:25, said:

Va fi indivizibila Rominia (Romania). Indiferent de dorintele secesioniste ale unora.
Statul Romania este in descompunere fiindca refuza ideea regiunilor de dezvoltare.
In 1998 parlamentul Romaniei a votat legea prin care s-au infiintat
cele 8 regiuni de dezvoltare.

Ce nu intelege populatia?

1. legea a permis alocarea unor fonduri de dezvoltari
intr-un mod distribuit, pe intreaga tara

2. legea a pus bazele divizarii administrative a Romaniei
in mod inteligent si descentralizat

3. Regiunea Centru (jud. Alba, Brasov, Sibiu, Mures, Harghita, Covasna)
a fost conceputa ca puterea ungurile sa fie localizata intr-o singura
zona din Romania, dar totodata in asa fel sa nu detina majoritatea,
caci in Regiunea Centru ungurii reprezinta 40% din populatie.
Pe cand in Secuime ungurii reprezinta 77% din populatie.
o mare diferenta.


Fiindca la Bucuresti nu se intelege astfel de chestii, mult prea fine
pentru mintea unui bucurestean (dar nu numai) cei mai mari
adversari ai ideii de regionalizare au fost si sunt bucurestenii.

Ceea ce a dus la situatia de astazi, in care Mures, Harghita si Covasna
se pretind Teritoriu Autonom Secuiesc, ba chiar actioneaza ca atare
(a se vedea toate evenimentele recente).

Pur si simplu statul Romania a incetat sa mai existe.
In curand o sa vedem o chestie sfaramata din incapatanarea
unor prostanaci care au confundat regionalizarea Romanie din 1998
(cele 8 regiuni de dezvoltare) cu o idee tampita numai de ei inteleasa.

View PostNASTYPRIMUL, on 1st January 2012, 02:34, said:

Sa nu mai spunem ca sintem intr-o Europa unita.
A se vedea legile lui Victor Orban din Ungaria.

View PostSDan222, on 30th December 2011, 11:46, said:

Era al dreaq de multietnic  :lol:

Romani 6.900.000 (92 %)
de unde pana unde? :ciocan:

View PostSDan222, on 30th December 2011, 11:46, said:

Tigani si bulgari 250.000 (3 %)
Evrei 240.000 (3 %)
Turci + greci 40.000 (0.5 %)
Altii 100.000 (1.5 %)

SURSA

Religia : 91.5 % ortodocsi si 9.5 % alte religii
Citeste-ti sursa cu atentie.
Daca vei gasi acolo mentionat ca romanii reprezentau 92% din populatie, te medaliez.
De unde ai scos-o?


Apropo, in 1877 Romania era un stat multietnic.
Nu avem o reprezentare exacta a situatiei.
Fiindca nu avem un recensamant.

Pe vremea aia popii inaintau la superiori cati credinciosi aveau.
In majoritatea cazurile cifre scoase din burta de popi analfabeti.

In perioada interbelica in Romania s-a dezvoltat o scoala de sociologie,
cea a lui Gusti, care a pus pe baza stiintifica metodologiile
de analiza a scoietatii romanesti.

Aceasta Scoala a lui Gusti a descoperit nenumerate situatii.
De exemplu, in muntii Bicaz un astfel de studiu constata
existenta mai multor sate de  uzi. In zona Argesului sunt scosi
la suprafata bulgarii asezati in perioada domnitorului Dan I
(adica in sec 14) si adusi din Bulgaria. samd.
Studiile lor sunt mult mai relevante decat orice maculatura
cu iz de nationalism ieftin si de prost gust.

#48
cipri1981

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View Postflorrea2, on 5th January 2012, 22:54, said:

de ce? Lumineaza-ma si pe mine.



Ti se pare c-am vorbit cu tine?! Sau sunteti una si aceeasi persoana?
Iti explic totusi: cand am inceput sa citesc topicul am avut impresia ca omul vrea sa inteleaga de ce anume a trebuit sa se  destrame tarile alea. Dupa 5 min mi-am dat seama ca el de fapt isi rodea unghiile de invidie ca tarile alea s-au destramat si Romania nu. Patetic. Voi chiar aveti impresia ca aveti de-a face numai cu prosti?
Ma luati pe aici cu calcule economice, ca ne-ar fi mai bine in regat daca ne-am desparti de Ardeal. Mai .......... in ardeal traiesc foarte multi romani, mai multi decat unguri. Pe mine, singurul lucru care ma intereseaza la ardeal este ca acelor oameni sa le fie bine si este parerea mea ca o independenta sau o autonomie a ardealului nu va face decat sa creasca mai mult influenta ungurilor in conducerea, organizarea sau ce mai vrei tu noului stat. Si, din cate stiu eu din istoria asta: DE CATE ORI UNGURII AU AVUT INFLUENTA MARE IN ARDEAL, LUCRURILE N-AU MAI STAT BINE PENTRU ROMANI .

Iti mai spun odata nu dau nici o ceapa degerata pentru ungurii de acolo. Si tin, sa anunt pe aceasta cale, pe un fost coleg de facultate ca inca nu merg cu pasaport in orasul in care am facut facultatea, asa cum preconiza el acum 10 ani. Si nici nu cred ca voi merge atat timp cat ROMANII de acolo nu-si vor dori acest lucru.

#49
vlachian

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View Postcipri1981, on 19th January 2012, 09:07, said:

DE CATE ORI UNGURII AU AVUT INFLUENTA MARE IN ARDEAL, LUCRURILE N-AU MAI STAT BINE PENTRU ROMANI .
deocamdata vad ca au mare influenta la Bucuresti.

Ce te faci?
Iti revizuiesti teza?

#50
NASTYPRIMUL

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Clar.
Rominia, Romania, sau ce denumire va fi, este INDIVIZIBILA. SI ASTA II ESTE MENIREA.

#51
vlachian

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View PostNASTYPRIMUL, on 19th January 2012, 19:57, said:

Clar.
Rominia, Romania, sau ce denumire va fi, este INDIVIZIBILA. SI ASTA II ESTE MENIREA.
cum nu este divizibila?

pai judetele ce sunt?
dar comunele?
dar orasele?

#52
cipri1981

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View Postvlachian, on 19th January 2012, 18:12, said:

deocamdata vad ca au mare influenta la Bucuresti.

Ce te faci?
Iti revizuiesti teza?
  

  Au influenta, nu influenta mare. Si de ce ar trebui sa-mi revizuiesc teza?! Ti se pare ca lucrurile merg bine? Din cauza lor nu putem sa ne reorganizam teritorial de exemplu. Daca au 7% si reusesc sa faca asta (si trebuie sa recunoastem ca aici trebuie sa multumim USL-ului care este contra puterii la orice initiativa buna sau rea) imagineaza-ti ce ar face intr-un ardeal unde ar avea vreo 30 la suta.

#53
vlachian

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View Postcipri1981, on 20th January 2012, 10:11, said:

imagineaza-ti ce ar face intr-un ardeal unde ar avea vreo 30 la suta.
americanii au avut fata de sovietici o politica denumita "containment policy".
Cu alte cuvinte politica "ingradirii".
Adica tine-l pe sovietice acolo unde este, nu-l lasa sa se extinda.

Asta ar insemna o noua diviziune administrativa a Romaniei.
Diviziunea pe baza celor 8 regiuni de dezvoltare, votata de parlamentul
ROmaniei in 1998 este cea mai buna solutie.

De ce?

Fiindca ungurii s-ar concentra intr-o singura regiune,
Regiunea Centru, unde formeaza 40% din populatie.

Dintr-o data, influenta lor la nivel de Romania ar limitata,
caci nu mai vor avea acces la parlament, decat in masura
reprezentarii de 1/8 al fiecarei regiuni, iar in Regiunea Centru
nu ar reprezenta majoritatea (40% nu inseamna 50% ori mai mult).


Totodata, din punct de vedere al drepturile lor nationale,
pretentiile lor vor fi limitate la o singura regiune.
Totodata, pretentiile lor nationale vor fi infranate si ingradite
de ceilalti 60% si va face obiectul politicii regiunii si nu a statului Romania.
O mare diferenta.

Din toate punctele de vedere divizia administrativa pe 8 regiuni
este cea mai inteligenta.

Ce gandeste insa matrozul bashinos?
vrea sa le dea Secuimea intregime lor.
Ce gandeste PSD-ul?
PUr si simplu vrea centralizare, adica status-quo-ul prin
care UDMR face parte continua la putere incepand cu decembrie 1989.
Cum a facut in vremea comunista, ca sectia maghiara a PCR.

Edited by vlachian, 20 January 2012 - 16:24.


#54
vladma

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View Postvlachian, on 20th January 2012, 16:21, said:

Fiindca ungurii s-ar concentra intr-o singura regiune,
Regiunea Centru, unde formeaza 40% din populatie.


29,9 %    defapt    http://ro.wikipedia....zvoltare_Centru

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