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Istoria evreilor

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#6391
vio69a

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 Darwin92, on 08 martie 2017 - 21:26, said:

in afara de scrierile biblice mai sunt si alte izvoare istorice? (nu ca cele biblice ar fi istorice )

iti raspund ca pentru crestinism nici macar cele biblice nu exista...nu pot fi demonstrate
Nicio dovada palpabila afara de niste scrieri triate, adaugite si imbunatatite ale unor oameni fara scoala, coplesiti de vremurile ce le-au trait de sciziunea ce a aparut in religia iudaica..
Evreii si-au scris istoria singuri, in diaog cu dumnezeu si ascultand indemnurile povete si reprosurile lui, caci nu aveau alte forme
Si nu aveau alta lege sociala, politica, familiara, comunitara.

Este o cronica a unui popor tinuta permanent la zi

Mare parte din dovezi s-au gasit in pamant, in ulcioare de lut ascunse, in urme de asezari, case, bijuterii, bani.
Scrierile bibilice din Vechiul testament sunt cat de poate de istorice si de stiintifice.
Mari rabini in toata lumea le-au imbunatatit si adaptat perioadelor in care au activat

Odata cu  e.n incep fanteziile, minunile, mortile suspecte si invierile si inaltarile la fel de suspecte

Istoric il avem pe Iosef Ben Matityahu Hacohen, rabin traducator istoric
Sa incepem cu el, si sa ne amintim si de Ezra, care venit din robia babiloniana sa reconstituie Ierusalimul....vreo300 ien,a scris in ebraica, insa citeva capitole sunt in aramaica.
Si este normala impletirea istoriei cu religia, caci religia era si cod de legi si sistem de invatamant si sistem social

Edited by vio69a, 09 March 2017 - 11:29.


#6392
terratec

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 fane_only, on 07 martie 2017 - 06:03, said:

Hristos vorbea aramaica.
Primii crestini vorbeau aramaica.
Primii crestini erau din neamul lui Hristos.
Biserica crestina nestoriana folosea ca limba liturgica limba aramaica.
Crestinii nestorieni erau aramaici.
Crestinii nestorieni erau de acelasi neam cu Hristos.
Crestinii nestorieni exista inca astazi. Ei vorbesc aramaica.

Unde se afla in prezent acesti oameni ?

#6393
Mount_Yerrmom

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 vio69a, on 09 martie 2017 - 11:06, said:

Este o cronica a unui popor tinuta permanent la zi

Pana acum 2.000 de ani.

Ce s-a intamplat acum 2.000 de ani de au incetat evreii sa mai tina istoria la zi?

Edited by Mount_Yerrmom, 09 March 2017 - 13:02.


#6394
fane_only

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 vio69a, on 09 martie 2017 - 11:06, said:

Istoric il avem pe Iosef Ben Matityahu Hacohen, rabin traducator istoric
iarasi minti.

nu stii altceva decat sa ne improsti cu minciuni.
Titus Flavius Josephus se tragea dintr--o familie de preoti evrei.
Nicidecum rabini.

Tu si gasca ta de yidden falsificati istoria.
Egalati istoria dinainte de Hristos,
cu perioada de dupa anul 70,
cu perioada de dupa sec VI,
adica perioada cand apare Talmudul in Ctesiphon,  capitala Persiei,

Perioada talmudica anunta aparitia importantei notiunii de rabin.
Pana la talmudisti, notiunea de rabin in ebraica insemna doar "cititor de carti".

Rabinul nu exista ca functie, ca rol religiios, ca importanta in societate.
Era  notiune, precum astazi am spune, cititor de carti.
Oricine poate fi cititor de carti.
Numai ca nu oricine este un rabin, precum sunt rabinii in societatea teocratica Talmudica.

Iar Titus Flavius Josephus a fost in primul rand roman, scria in latina si greaca si era un cetatean roman.

 terratec, on 09 martie 2017 - 11:37, said:


Unde se afla in prezent acesti oameni ?

ii mai gasesti in Siria alaturi de regimul Assad (victime ale agresiunii ISIS dar si a celor sustinuti de regimul Obama din SUA)
ii mai gasesti in Irak (si acolo au cam cazut drept victime)
ii mai gasesti in Turcia,
nu stiu cati mai exista in Israel (astia au dus o politica de purificare)
stiu ca existau in Iran (am intalnit astfel de refugiat din Iran tocmai aici in SUA)
si bineinteles ca refugiati ii gasesti in Europa, Americi si alte locuri in lume.

Edited by fane_only, 09 March 2017 - 19:25.


#6395
fane_only

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 vio69a, on 09 martie 2017 - 14:05, said:

Au devenit Diaspora.
si devenind diaspora au tinut istoria la zi in germana, in franceza, in italiana, in romana,
Adica dupa anul 70, dupa ce un general evreu din armata romana distruge Templul,
evreii au emigrat in diaspora unde au inceput sa scrie in germana, franceza, italiana, româna, etc.

Adica tu ne crezi, pe noi românii, o gasca de imbecili, care n-au notiuni istorice,
care cred ca limba româneasca se vorbea pe la anul 70.

Nu stiu ce cred francezii despre ei, sau italienii, dar eu ca român iti spun ca nu sunt imbecil
si nu gust nicicum mârlania ta.

#6396
vio69a

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 fane_only, on 09 martie 2017 - 19:27, said:


stiu ca existau in Iran (am intalnit astfel de refugiat din Iran tocmai aici in SUA)


domnule, te invidiez....esti inconjurat numai de evrei...te uiti la etajul unu ai un evreu din India fugit din Israel, te uiti la etajul trei ai alt evreu , chinez, fugit din israel....Mata tot fugit din israel....v-au construit americanii un cartier ??

#6397
fane_only

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 vio69a, on 09 martie 2017 - 14:05, said:

....altii au prins radacini in tarile unde e rau iar jumatate au fost omorati cu premeditare  pentru ca erau evrei.
aici discutam istorie.
istoria nu inseamna prozelitism, ideologie, frectii manuela si alte chestii.

daca nu stii ce inseamna istorie, stai in rubricile tale favorite: politica, religie, frectii.

 vio69a, on 09 martie 2017 - 19:55, said:

domnule, te invidiez....esti inconjurat numai de evrei...
subiectul era: crestini nestorieni vorbitori de aramaica.

inca o dovadata ca esti plin de venin, ura rasiala, ura etnica, si faci doar propaganda politica.

Edited by fane_only, 09 March 2017 - 20:01.


#6398
vio69a

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Omul alb, a plecat deseori departe de casa, drumuri lungi si grele si il gasim "plantat" din America de sud si de nord, Canada
Australia, tot orientul Mijlociu si oceania.
Urmele lasate de el au fost deseori cumplite.
Beneficii pentru populatie aproape zero.
evreii, alungati de doua ori in istoria lor, cu templul daramat si deznadajduiti, de asemeni s-au raspandit in lumea large pe toate ce e 5 continente.
contributia lor a fost insa inversa, in beneficiul celor ce i-au primit .
Nu am auzit sa fi fost in istoria evreiasca un cuceritor, un dictator, un despot, un judecat pentru crime impotriva umanitatii.

Dece oare?

Aici trebuie intrebat dumnezeu, care cred ca daca le-a dat premiu cu coronita, apoi le-a dat si o fire sa nu devina despotii omenirii
Cred ca mai curand i-a obligat la suferinta decat la bucurii si sarbatoare.
Istoria lor daca o citim bine este o succesiune de minuni.
Care minuni au permis continuitatea singurului popor care si-a pastrat identitatea, limba, credinta, obiceiurile neschimbate indiferent raspandirea lui in lume

#6399
fane_only

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 vio69a, on 10 martie 2017 - 18:56, said:

Nu am auzit sa fi fost in istoria evreiasca un cuceritor, un dictator, un despot, un judecat pentru crime impotriva umanitatii.

Dece oare?
Ok.

Incep sa te aprob.
Adica tu faci deosebire intre yiddenii talmudici si evrei.

Caci altfel, cum ai putea sa faci aceasta afirmatie din moment ce stii cine a fost Trotki,
Yakoda, Ana Pauker, Nikolski, Kaganovich si administratorii Gulagului precum
Lazar Kogan, Yakov Rappaport, Naftaly Frenkel, Aaron Solts, Matvei Berman samd.

Astia toti au fost yidden, nascuti in majoritatea cazurilor din familii de rabini talmudici.

Cum evreii n-au facut crime,
e logic ca yidden si talmudicii nu pot fi evrei.

Q.E.D.

(multumesc pentru aceasta gandire limpede si cinstita)

#6400
vio69a

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 fane_only, on 10 martie 2017 - 19:05, said:

Ok.


Observ ca mi te adresezi mult mai des decat simt nevoia.

#6401
fane_only

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 vio69a, on 10 martie 2017 - 19:08, said:

Observ ca mi te adresezi mult mai des decat simt nevoia.

iti admir gandirea.
Foarte logica,
foarte obiectiva,
foarte clara,
deloc propagandista,
nici o adie de zionism in ea,
samd.

#6402
fane_only

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vio!
ca sa nu uit.
ai devenit jucaria mea preferata.
alaturi de nea florica.
si grrrr.

#6403
a3ds

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http://www.toqonline...km-slezkine.pdf

Aici e review-ul unei carti despre istoria evreilor in secolul 20->fosta URSS

STALIN’S WILLING EXECUTIONERS JEWS AS A HOSTILE ELITE IN THE USSR The Jewish Century Yuri Slezkine Princeton, NJ: Princeton University Press, 2004

#6404
vio69a

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 a3ds, on 12 martie 2017 - 17:49, said:

http://www.toqonline...km-slezkine.pdf

Aici e review-ul unei carti despre istoria evreilor in secolul 20->fosta URSS

STALIN’S WILLING EXECUTIONERS JEWS AS A HOSTILE ELITE IN THE USSR The Jewish Century Yuri Slezkine Princeton, NJ: Princeton University Press, 2004

Si parerea ta personala?
Afara de a insira surse gasite cu google ?

#6405
lucifer76

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 a3ds, on 12 martie 2017 - 17:49, said:

Aici e review-ul unei carti despre istoria evreilor in secolul 20->fosta URSS
Interesant, evreii au inlocuit clasa mijlocie insuficient dezvoltata in estul Europei. Mai mult, au fost cat se poate de grabiti sa intermedieze afacerile intre taranii vremii si boieri.

#6406
a3ds

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Plus ca au fost/sunt etnocentrici, ii privesc cu dispret pe bastinasi si nu se asimileaza absolut deloc.

Plus partea cu ostilitatea patenta. De la "young turks" pana la revolutia bolsevica + epurarile din tarile foste sovietice.

Revolutia din Ungaria din anii 50 a fost mai ales impotriva evreilor, care constituiau o parte foarte importanta a aparatului represiv si a partidului comunist.

Si la noi a fost la fel, vezi Ana Pauker, Walter Roman etc.

Nepotism etnic, pe asta se bazeaza succesul lor si faptul ca au o mentalitate noi vs the world.

The bottom line is that it is ridiculous to claim
that Jews are individualists because they treat outsiders as individuals while
acknowledging that they retain a powerful ingroup consciousness and are
masters of ethnic networking.


It is no stretch at all, however, to show that Jews have achieved a preeminent
position in Europe and America, and Slezkine provides us with statistics of Jewish
domination only dimly hinted at in the following examples from Europe in the
late nineteenth century to the rise of National Socialism.


Austria: All but one bank
in fin de siècle Vienna was administered by Jews, and Jews constituted 70% of the
stock exchange council; Hungary: between 50 and 90 percent of all industry was
controlled by Jewish banking families, and 71% of the most wealthy taxpayers
were Jews; Germany: Jews were overrepresented among the economic elite by a
factor of 33. Similar massive overrepresentation was also to be found in educational
attainment and among professionals (e.g., Jews constituted 62% of the lawyers
in Vienna in 1900, 25% in Prussia in 1925, 34% in Poland, and 51% in Hungary).
Indeed, “the universities, ‘free’ professions, salons, coffeehouses, concert halls,
and art galleries in Berlin, Vienna, and Budapest became so heavily Jewish that
liberalism and Jewishness became almost indistinguishable”
(p. 63).

Cam la fel se intampla acum in SUA, sunt disproportionat reprezentati in sistemul bancar in ultimii 30-40 de ani (consecinte extrem de nefaste), mass media (care a devenit corporatizata si e practic un instrument de propaganda), Hollywood (care distruge cultural America profunda de zeci de ani) etc.

De aia am facut de multe ori comparatia dintre Statele Unite 2017 si Republica de la Weimar. Cam toate ingredientele sunt acolo.


Slezkine is entirely correct that Marxism, psychoanalysis, and the Frankfurt
School were fundamentally Jewish intellectual movements. However, he fails
to provide anything like a detailed account of how these ideologies served
specifically Jewish interests, most generally in combating anti-Semitism and
subverting ethnic identification among Europeans.30 Indeed, a major premise
of his treatment is that Jewish radicals were not Jews at all.

Edited by a3ds, 13 March 2017 - 14:16.


#6407
lucifer76

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Quote

Moreover, Slezkine pictures the middlemen as specializing in “certain dangerous, marvelous, and distasteful” (p. 9), but nevertheless indispensable, pursuits (p. 36)—a formulation that carries a grain of truth, as in places where natives were prohibited from loaning money at interest. However, he ignores, or at least fails to spell out, the extent to which Jews have been willing agents of exploitative elites, not only in Western societies, but in the Muslim world as well.
This is the overarching generalization which one can make about Jewish economic behavior over the ages. Their role went far beyond performing tasks deemed inappropriate for the natives for religious reasons; rather they were often tasks at which natives would be relatively less ruthless in exploiting their fellows. This was especially the case in Eastern Europe, where economic arrangements such as tax farming, estate management, and monopolies on retail liquor distribution lasted far longer than in the West: In this way, the Jewish arendator became the master of life and death over the population of entire districts, and having nothing but a short-term and purely financial interest in the relationship, was faced with the irresistible temptation to pare his temporary subjects to the bone.
On the noble estates he tended to put his relatives and co-religionists in charge of the flour-mill, the brewery, and in particular of the lord’s taverns where by custom the peasants were  obliged to drink. On the church estates, he became the collector of all ecclesiastical dues, standing by the church door for his payment from tithe-payers, baptized infants, newly-weds, and mourners. On the [royal] estates..., he became in effect the Crown Agent, farming out the tolls, taxes, and courts, and adorning his oppressions with all the dignity of royal authority.

Quote

By emphasizing the necessity and distastefulness of traditional Jewish occupations, Slezkine also ignores the extent to which Jewish competition suppressed the formation of a native middle class in Eastern Europe. (This has also occurred throughout Southeast Asia, because of competition from the Overseas Chinese.) Instead, Slezkine sees Eastern Europeans, through stereotypic lenses, as quintessential Apollonians, some of whom became Mercurian modernists when forced to by circumstances, rather than as containing elements that would have naturally aspired to and competently performed the economic and cultural functions that instead came to be performed by Jews because of their ability to create ethnic monopolies in goods and services. When Jews won the economic competition in early modern Poland, the result was that the great majority of Poles were reduced to the status of agricultural laborers supervised by Jewish estate managers in an economy in which trade, manufacturing, and artisanry were in large part controlled by Jews.
Deci, evreii au impiedicat creerea unei clase mijlocii in estul Europei prin monopolizarea anumitor domenii economice.

Quote

On the other hand, in most of Western Europe Jews had been expelled in the Middle Ages. As a result, when modernization occurred, it was accomplished with an indigenous middle class. If, as in Eastern Europe, Jews had won the economic competition in most of these professions, there would not have been a non-Jewish middle class in England. Whatever one imagines might have been the fortunes and character of England with predominantly Jewish artisans, merchants, and manufacturers, it seems reasonable to suppose that the Christian taxpayers of England made a good investment in their own future when they agreed to pay King Edward I a massive tax of £116,346 in return for expelling two thousand Jews in 1290.
Se pare ca Anglia s-a modernizat dupa expulzarea evreilor.

#6408
a3ds

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Si Germania a renascut economic in anii 30 fix din cauza asta.

Truth has a certain ring to it, innit? :)

Edited by a3ds, 13 March 2017 - 14:22.


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