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Solutii functionare corecta mod auto standby subwoofer activ conectat la un receiver stereo

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#1
Mr. Incredible

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Salutare!

Deschid acest subiect cu speranta ca voi gasi solutie la urmatoarea chestiune: se da un receiver stereo Yamaha R-N803 cu iesire de subwoofer si un subwoofer activ Dynavoice Challenger Sub 10 ex, sunt conectate printr-un cablu cu 1 RCA, unul la iesirea de sub din receiver si al doilea conectat la intrarea Left a Line Input a subwoofer-ului. Atasez poze cu ele ca sa se vada ce conexiuni au.

Subwooferul are mod auto si in mod normal ma astept ca atunci cand pornesc receiverul sa porneasca si subwooferul din standby fara sa fie nevoie de alte comenzi, doar ascultand muzica iar dupa ce inchid receiverul sa intre singur in standby.
Receiverul e setat sa porneasca la volum mai mic (undeva la 74 ca exemplu) si apoi sa il pot da mai tare sau mai incet cu subwwoferul ramanand activ. Se intampla ca modul auto standby nu functioneaza asa cum ar trebui, am scris cate ceva despre asta in alt topic. Daca dau mai tare volumul din receiver atunci undeva sub 50, uneori chiar mai jos porneste si subwooferul din standby, daca il las pe modul ON permanent este activ tot timpul, ma intereseaza insa sa il fac sa fie ceva mai sensibil ca sa functioneze corect si in modul auto.

Mentionez ca am incercat deja o variata sugerata de colegul vinciun care este ok cumva dar pana la un punct, nu rezolva problema mea.

Attached File  yamaha-r-n803-review-2-1500x1000.jpg   265.11K   34 downloads

Attached File  IMG_20220115_134037.jpg   303.59K   36 downloads

Attached File  cablu-subwoofer-oehlbach-nf-sub-6292-117517.jpg   104.4K   26 downloads

View PostMr. Incredible, on 16 ianuarie 2022 - 17:06, said:

As mai avea o intrebare legata de acest subwoofer pe care il folosesc in prezent: sunt nevoit sa-l tin pe modul ON si nu pe AUTO pentru ca din cate am probat se dezactiveaza atunci cand semnalul nu e suficient de puternic, daca ascult muzica la un volum mai ridicat si el este in modul AUTO atunci porneste cand e deschis si primeste semnal dar cand volumul e redus nu o mai face si am observat ca daca scad volumul dupa un timp se dezactiveaza.

View Postvinciun, on 16 ianuarie 2022 - 17:18, said:

Vezi ce  arata in ypao musiccast dupa calibrare. Daca ai minus 8-10 db la subwoofer da putin mai incet de pe potentiometru lui si refa calibrarea. Ajustezi pana nimeresti sa ai in musiccast lq yapo 0 pe iesirea de sub. Altfel risti sa fie prea mic semnalul la iesire din amp, din cauza asta la volume mici nu porneste subul automat.

View PostMr. Incredible, on 16 ianuarie 2022 - 19:51, said:

Am facut niste teste in acest sens, daca initial fusesera valorile mentionate de tine, undeva la 8-10 db si pornea din standby pe la un volum de 42 am facut mai multe incercari si am nimerit setarea de 0 db la subwoofer cu ypao, dupa ce am inchis tot si am pornit sistemul a pornit subwooferul din standby pe la un volum de 52 db. Tot foarte mult sa ca am incercat o alta calibrare dupa ce am mai umblat la potentiometru si desi am iesit la 4,5 db dupa incercare nu mi-a mai pornit decat cand am crescut volumul pe la 49-49 db.
Am mai facut acum o proba cu aceleasi setari si a pornit la volum de 53 db. Tot nu e ok, mai pot face ceva?

View Postvinciun, on 16 ianuarie 2022 - 20:06, said:

Nu mai poti face nimic. Daca nu te multumeste ce a iesit pui pe sub-ul pe on sau il schimbi cu altul mai sensibil. Totusi imi pare ca rn803d mai are o iesire de pilotat un subwoofer activ si anume pentru on si of, adica sa porneasca subwooferul instant cu receiverul din telecomanda chiar daca nu e semnal. Dar trebuie sa aiba si subwooferul intrarea respectiva, e vorba de un fir pilot care se conecteaza desi ai conectat sub-ul prin rca.

Edited by Mr. Incredible, 18 January 2022 - 21:23.


#2
vinciun

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Ai nevoie de o priza ca asta
https://www.amazon.f...42534383&sr=8-2

Compatibila cu functia trigger.

Vezi ca ai la receiver langa iesirea de subwoofer o iesire trigger. Daca avea si subwooferul intrarea respectiva era mai simplu dar nu vad sa aiba.

Bagi subwooferul intr-o priza compatibila trigger si il tii mereu pe on. Priza va conecta si deconecta fiind comandata de receiver.

Edited by vinciun, 18 January 2022 - 21:38.


#3
memo7gy

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Unde se poate găsi in România un cablu trigger 12v..?.


#4
vinciun

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Cablu? Cred ca e un simplu jack 3.5mm masculin - masculin. De concretizat.

#5
Ger0nimo

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Da, e un cablu mono jack 3.5 dar se poate folosi orice cablu stereo jack 3.5.
Eu l-am folosit fara probleme.

#6
memo7gy

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 Ger0nimo, on 19 ianuarie 2022 - 00:41, said:

Da, e un cablu mono jack 3.5 dar se poate folosi orice cablu stereo jack 3.5.
Eu l-am folosit fara probleme.

Am înțeles …credeam ca e ceva mai special …multumesc de lămuriri

#7
Calinuus

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De ce nu legi cablul la intrarea LFE din subwoofer?

#8
Mr. Incredible

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Se comporta cam la fel si acolo, nu influenteaza aspectul cu pornirea din standby la volum mic sau intrarea in standby dupa o vreme cand e volumul mai mic dupa ca a fost pornit la volum mai mare.

#9
memo7gy

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 Mr. Incredible, on 19 ianuarie 2022 - 09:37, said:

Se comporta cam la fel si acolo, nu influenteaza aspectul cu pornirea din standby la volum mic sau intrarea in standby dupa o vreme cand e volumul mai mic dupa ca a fost pornit la volum mai mare.

Atunci , intrebare...conexiunea prin trigger Amp-Sub, rezolva aceasta problema ?

#10
Mr. Incredible

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Nu am facut o astfel de conexiune. Ce mufe si ce cablu ar trebui folosit pentru asta?

#11
Sasenoua

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Eu as schimba cablul cu care faceti conexiunea catre sub cu un altul lfe/rca noi sau daca stii ca ai altele bune care merg schimba cu acestea. Daca cablurile nu transmit semnalele catre sub-voltajul respectiv/semnalul respectiv nu le vede si nu se porneste/opreste  singur.

A doua solutie a fost deja data, volum mai mare in sub. Daca inteleg eu bine  aveti de fapt 2 subwoofere unul care e controlat de receiver stereo direct si al doilea legat de primul prin rca pe line level out. Daca asa e, la mine al doilea l-am pus pe volum maxim si se inchide deschide o data cu primul pe auto. Exista totusi un mic delay intre cele doua subwoofere la pornire oprire, cablurile rca(subwoofer-subwoofer/rca -rca) am luat de la hama ala de 3 stele. Daca stateam pe volum trei sferturi din subul necontrolat de receiver, al doilea se inchidea la orice scena ce nu folosea bass, nu detecta semnal si se repornea cand avea semnal corespunzator, depinde de coloana sonora.

Pentru receiverele care au trigger si nu transmit semnal de deschidere inchidere prin trigger rezolvarea e simpla(adica receiver trigger out- amp trigger in). Inchideti zonele de pe receiver(zona 1 si 2 sa fie pe off) din setarile meniului. (in special pe Denon /Marantz)

Edited by Sasenoua, 19 January 2022 - 12:11.


#12
Mr. Incredible

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Am gasit ceva informatii despre acest subiect, modul auto la subwoofere conectate la receivere/aplificatoare si am gasit destul de multe discutii cu tot felul de aparate si subwoofere.

E ceva ce mi-a atras atentia, pe langa sugestia colegului vinciun de a regla subwooferul ca in urma calibrarii sa fie undeva la 0 db, am gasit destul de multe discutii in care se face referire ca solutie pentru o functionare mai buna a modului auto de la subwoofere a unui cablu in Y. Aveti idee daca ajuta in mod real si daca sunt ceva dezavantaje pentru solutia respectiva?

Attached File  Audioquest Y.jpg   168.98K   0 downloads

Se gaseste de vanzare si la noi acest cablu: https://www.noiz.ro/...22m-flx-x-15cm/

mr.black79
Aug 31, 2021
#64
I wonder if anyone has had any issues with auto standby and needed a Y-split adapter? I've tried the SW set to auto over the last few days and noticed it not waking up. Using AVR channel check confirms this. It's not possible to see the lights on the back of the SW unless the room is dark. My previous SW light happened to have a brighter reflection off the wall.
SW vol is -15, AVR sub channel -1.0dB. Years ago with an old sub that had a auto standby issue, I had to turn down it's gain dial and re-run AVR auto cal which raised it's sub channel nearer 0dB (with +10 being max).
As the SVS is the first I've had with - values, I wanted to be careful and emailed SVS to enquire. They recommend a y-split adapter that will show signal to both inputs of the sub and will offer a +3dB increase in output from it. This increased signal should ensure the sub is seeing a strong enough signal to come out of standby even at low volumes.
I shall try a Y adapter and run receiver auto calibration again to test.


Mr Wolf
Aug 31, 2021
#65
I run Y-splitters on my SB-2000 and two PB-3000s to help them wake-up for the exact reason you mention and it seems to work. TBH I never had a problem with not waking up on TV/movies, only music played at low levels.


mr.black79
Aug 31, 2021
#68
Did you need to reduce the gain on your subs after connecting Y splitter before running any auto calibration? I saw mention in post 17 of a forum online about it. SVS mentioned setting the sub gain between -15dB to -10dB when running receiver auto calibration. It's currently set to -15, I guessed leave it there and make note of what trim level the receiver sets with auto calibration.


Mr Wolf
Sep 1, 2021
#69
mr.black79 said:
I never rely on the AVR auto-calibration to set my sub levels as I always finds they set it too low. I used to just use my ears with bass heavy music that I know well to find the right spot but I now use REW with a UMIK-1.

My waking-up issue was worsened by the fact that I use a y-splitter at the AVR end due to only having a single sub out on my Yamaha RX-V3900 which further lowers the pre-out voltage. I discussed this with Ed Mullen of SVS re. my PB-3000s and asked him about adding y-splitters and the respective gain levels in AVR and subs. He advised using the splitters and also said as long as the PB-3000s were running no lower than -23dB they would be capable of being driven to full power. I got the impression that this setting probably varied by sub model.
I'm currently at about -15dB on the subs and -8dB (max = -10dB) on the AVR but that's going via a MiniDSP which has replaced the Y-splitter at the AVR end.

Aici e discutia completa: https://www.avforums....2355441/page-3

SVS Auto-Standby and Yamaha Receiver Issue

T Van
I recently revamped my home audio system and it includes: SVS SB12-NSD, Yamaha TSR-5810 (RX-V581).
My issue is that the SVS sub doesn't turn on at a reasonable level when paired with the Yamaha receiver. I get the best results when I have the sub out on the Yamaha at +10 and both subwoofer output jacks connected separately to the input jacks on the SVS.
Even then, with a set audio piece, the sub doesn't turn on until volume level 41, where as my old Onkyo sub turns on at volume level 22 with the same settings. I normally listen to the system at level 33 (which is -47.5db).
I've tried a variety of cable connection methods. I get the worst results when I connect only a single cable from the Yamaha to the SVS: it doesn't turn on until volume level 49. And keep in mind all of this is at +10 output on the Yamaha.
I've contacted SVS support and they say this is an issue with Yamaha receivers and that I'm basically out of luck unless I change my receiver.
Are there any solutions besides leaving it on all the time, getting a new receiver, or getting a new sub? I'm handy with soldering if all it will take is swapping out a resistor on the SVS amp.

jsc79
#2 · Feb 26, 2018
Have you tried a Y splitter? My Yammy is lazy at turning on my sub at lower volumes and turns it off at low volumes as well.
Y splitter did the trick for me. Single cable from the sub out on the receiver to a y splitter to both inputs on the sub.
I myself have never heard of using both sub outputs on the receiver to both inputs on the sub. I may have misunderstood you though.

pase22
I had the same issue with my Denon. A cheap $5 Y splitter is all you'll need. Dual to the sub, single to the AVR as JSC explained above.

T Van
I've already tried a y-splitter (from a single output on the Yamaha). That gives me slightly worse results than connecting both outputs on the Yamaha to both inputs on the SVC.

Ed Mullen
Also make sure all of your speakers are set to Small in the Yamaha.
If some of the speakers are set to Large, the subwoofer won't see any redirected bass for those channels (unless you manually turn-on double bass which only affects the mains anyway).
If the sub isn't seeing all of the redirected bass, the auto-on behavior can be inconsistent depending on the source material being played.
A Y splitter doubles the input voltage (compared to a single-ended input) and that adds 6 dB of gain (because we use a voltage summer on the inputs). Just remember to reduce the gain at the subwoofer by 6 dB if you add a Y splitter to keep the overall calibration level the same.
A defective sub-out can affect ANY brand of AVR or processor. When the sub-out is defective, the output voltage is much lower than normal (which requires lots of gain at the sub and also a very high sub trim level in the AVR) in order to obtain a level match with the speaker channels.
A defective sub-out also can't hit the higher voltage peaks required to drive the subwoofer amp to full power, so the subwoofer lacks the expected dynamic range and just seems lifeless.
If we suspect a defective sub-out, we always recommend the customer connect an alternative source directly to the subwoofer (like a smart phone/iPod or a CD/DVD player with analog outs). If the subwoofer plays loud and has good dynamics with the alternate source, we know something is going-on upstream with the AVR sub-out.
We've also seen very low output voltage on the line-level outputs of certain integrated tube amps - there is literally just not enough juice present to drive the sub amp to anywhere near full power, even with the gain set to max. In cases like that, the Amazon line level booster Tom linked above is really helpful.

drramki
I just bought the Yamaha Aventage A670BL and SB-12NSD. My sub works perfectly with my Denon S530BT but having issues with Yamaha. I am planning to try using a wireless switch (Google Home/ Alexa) with my sub so its less painful every time I listen to music.
Even otherwise, I think the signal levels on the Yamaha sub pre-out is way lower than the Denon. Even at +10 gain in the receiver and max gain in the subwoofer, I feel the output is less than what I get out of Denon. Wondering if I should return the receiver for this (Yamaha app is great, auto shut-off works great and I got a good deal on this Yamaha at $349)

Ed Mullen
H Stevens said:
Are you recommending this solution just for the Auto-On problems or are you seeing other issues with the Yamaha receivers that this is also correcting?
I am curious about the low pre out voltage situation, what problems does this cause? Can using a higher trim level such as 0 or +1, +2 rectify this problem?
If the Yamaha's are using a lower pre out voltage, wouldn't there be a lesser chance of clipping? Is it possible that the Yamaha's sub pre out's just need to be set higher?
There is a difference between a defective pre-out with poor (or non-existent) dynamic range and a pre-out with normal dynamic range, but a lower overall voltage gain structure.

A defective subwoofer pre-out lacking normal dynamic range will produce lifeless bass from the subwoofer which essentially stays at the same playback level regardless of what is happening in the soundtrack itself dynamically. No amount of gain boost can fix this problem - adding gain will make the bass louder, but it will still lack normal dynamic range. In situations like this, the AV processor will need to be repaired or replaced.
A pre-out with normal dynamic range - but with a low overall voltage gain structure - may not have enough output voltage to drive the subwoofer amplifier to anywhere near full output. We see this frequently in tube pre-amps connected to subwoofers in 2-channel systems. This type of situation will definitely benefit from a line level gain booster.

Discutia completa: https://www.avsforum...-issue.2959922/

Subwoofer auto-standby problem
APinto
I recently bought a JBL Cinema 610 system that I coupled with my Yamaha RX-V475 AV receiver.
I am not overly impressed with the music performance of the JBL system, but it's the best compromise between my 2.1 preferences, my wife's 5.1 cinema enjoyment and our budget!
But I am having some problems with the subwoofer's auto sensing feature, that takes the unit to standby when no signal is detected. Unfortunately it's not possible to turn this off and in order to have the subwoofer on I have to set the AV receiver's volume quite high. During the day this isn't a major problem, but in the evening, when everything is quieter, the subwoofer goes into standby when the audio isn't rich in bass.
I contacted JBL and they asked me to increase the AV receiver's subwoofer level, which I did, to the maximum of +10. But the problem is exactly the same, no changes. And at this level I have a very unpleasant bass performance, a bit too overwhelming.
Even when the volume is high, the subwoofer goes into standby in longer speech scenes, for example. From what I can tell, the standby period is only a few minutes (there's LED in the back that indicates if the unit is in standby). This is annoying because when the bass returns it takes a couple of seconds for the subwoofer to react and return from standby.
Did any of you experienced similar problems? If this is "normal" I don't think it's acceptable, because without the subwoofer the audio performance of the system is quite poor, worse than my TV!

FMW
Common problem. The solution is to lower the volume on the subwoofer itself. Set it to less than half volume. Then rerun the YPAO on the receiver. If it isn't enough, then lower it more and run YPAO yet again. Should handle it handily.

APinto
Hello FMW, thank you for your help! That did the trick, I settled for a level of +7 on the receiver and a very low volume setting on the subwoofer.

sivadselim
Yep. Common problem with the Auto-ON setting/feature. I currently have JBL subs with no way to override this "feature" and I absolutely hate it. I'll never, ever have sub(s) that can't be set to be always ON again. Does you sub have dual inputs? If so, in addition to adjusting the sub's volume down and the AVR's subwoofer trim correspondingly higher, you can use a y-splitter to connect both inputs to try and get a stronger signal to the sub.

Discutia completa: https://www.avsforum...roblem.1608954/

Subwoofer stays in standby unless volume is cranked way up
jamiebosco
Set the speakers to SMALL with a 60-80Hz crossover to ensure a signal is even sent to your sub
You may need to use an RCA Y-splitter (1xF to 2xM) at the subwoofer end (ie. use both subwoofer inputs on the plate amp) to increase the input voltage by 6dB, Yamaha AVR's are known to have low voltage output on their preouts

Discutia completa: https://www.avsforum...way-up.3173521/

Need some help with the auto-on feature on SVS
samplehead
I have a yamaha rx-v685 receiver and will receive two SVS subwoofers next week. I have reed on various audio forums that yamaha receivers might send a too low signal to wake up the sub when using the auto-on feature. To fix this issue there seams too be 4 different solutions. Using a trigger cable, an y-splitter, raise the bass level on the receiver or have the subs on all the time. What are your suggestions?

fatboy frank
My advice would be wait until you've got them, you might not have any issues with the auto on feature working as intended. Some subs won't work using a y-split, you'd best check direct with SVS or the manual to see what it says regarding this. The Yamaha only has 1 12v trigger as far as i know, sometimes this can be daisy chained or split with no issues depending on how Yamaha have implemented this. Do your sub's have trigger in/out ? if they do, you shouldn't have any trouble connecting with the trigger cable going to the first sub and then trigger out from the first sub to trigger in on the second one.
If you do have issues with the auto on/off it's probably easier just to bump up your sub trims in the Yamaha, at least doing this you don't need to purchase extra cables etc.
As i say, wait until you get them in and setup as you might not have any issues with the auto on/off feature at all.

Ed Mullen
Just to clarify on the Y splitter -
A Y splitter on the subwoofer pre-out results in the same voltage at each branch.
If you connect both branches to the subwoofer inputs, this doubles the input voltage because we use a voltage summer on the inputs via an inverted op-amp.
This results in a 6 dB increase in subwoofer output as compared to a single-ended connection and can indeed solve a sleepy auto-on circuit.
With that said, I would certainly wait to see how the subwoofer behaves before doing anything. The auto-on wake-up threshold for our amps is only about 5 mV - so if all the speakers are set to Small the sub will easily get enough voltage to wake-up with most normal music/movie source material even at very low master volume settings.
Also, don't paint Yamaha AVR sub-outs with a broad brush - they do not have abnormally low output voltage when the sub-out is functioning normally. There were some problems with low sub-out voltage from certain Aventage AVRs - but those were defective sub-outs and not functioning normally.
We had one customer with this issue - and he replaced the AVR with the same exact brand/model and the replacement worked great and easily drove the subs to full power.
Ed M - Dir of Customer Service/Technology

Discutia completa: https://www.avforums...on-svs.2330039/

Legat de cablul splitter in Y am gasit pe Amazon acest review: https://www.amazon.c...nt&pageNumber=2
Colleen Annes
5.0 out of 5 stars Great Build Quality and Signal Strength.
Reviewed in the United States on December 30, 2017
Bought this splitter because my JL Audio e112 sub was not getting enough voltage in for it to wake up from auto on mode. Plus my SVS sub cable did not seem to have enough grip on its connector. The Audioquest splitter gripped tightly to my sub cable and subwoofer connections, eliminating any kind of weak links. I now gained about 6dbs on my sub signal which makes the sub wake up in seconds. This splitter is a high value upgrade if you sub has dual rca inputs.


#13
Sasenoua

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Eu folosesc splitter de la Cordial de la receiverul Yamaha sub out lfe la subul principal. Gasesti pe thomann parca sau pe senia. Nu mai stiu de unde l-am luat. Probabil ca trimite acelasi voltaj pe fiecare fir, (daca subul are inverted op amp cum zice asta despre Svs), la subul meu Emotiva line level se poate conecta ori cu rca ori cu lfe pe level line. Problema mea e ca pe auto subul ramane mereu permanent deschis daca e pe auto dar acum o sa schimb pe lfe simplu daca tot mi-ai dat ideea asta. Posted Image  Cum si SVS si Emotiva sunt branduri americane s-ar putea sa se potriveasca povestea. La Dynavoice nu stiu daca cablul y ajuta rezulta clar ca subul tre sa aiba op amp.

#14
vinciun

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 memo7gy, on 19 ianuarie 2022 - 11:07, said:



Atunci , intrebare...conexiunea prin trigger Amp-Sub, rezolva aceasta problema ?

Teoretic pentru asta e facuta conexiunea trigger. Cand pornesti amplificatorul el da un impuls scurt catre priza trigger si aia conecteaza, indiferent ca ai muzica sau nu. Si cand opresti amplificatorul el va deconecta si priza.

 Mr. Incredible, on 19 ianuarie 2022 - 11:25, said:

Nu am facut o astfel de conexiune. Ce mufe si ce cablu ar trebui folosit pentru asta?

Ai nevoie de priza, evident, ti-am pus mai sus in link si de un cablu cu jack3.5mm mono masculin pe ambele capete. Acest cablu nu va influenta sunetul, deci merge unul standard si ieftin.

#15
amstel

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Am întâmpinat aceeași problemă.
Am cumpărat o priză master/slave, receiverul in priza master, subwooferul în priza slave in poziția ON. Când pornește receiverul pornește și subwooferul, când se oprește receiverul se taie alimentarea la subwoofer.
https://conectica.ro...logilink-lps301

#16
Mr. Incredible

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Mi se pare foarte buna solutia ta. Modelul asta este ok, si-ar face treaba pentru ce am eu nevoie: www.emag.ro/prelungitor-bachmann-connectus-master-slave-1-4-prize-cordon-2-m-330-106/pd/E8GR7BBBM/###fav_pd-title

#17
Mr. Incredible

Mr. Incredible

    It's showtime!

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Am omis sa pun semnul intrebarii, este ok acel model pe care l-am gasit in stoc? Bachmann CONNECTUS Master&Slave, 1+4 prize

Modelul tau nu este in stoc.

Edited by Mr. Incredible, 19 January 2022 - 16:37.


#18
amstel

amstel

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Nu știu ce să-ți zic. Eu am pus acel model doar ca exemplu. Eu folosesc de aproape 2 ani așa ceva dar marca Legrand (asta am găsit în acel moment) și totul a fost OK. Parcă am dat mai mult, cred că 180 lei, dar mi-am rezolvat această problemă.

Edited by amstel, 19 January 2022 - 16:43.


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