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#91
Fratello_2007

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Nu imi ajunge mie ca e Unix pur, dar nu e inca certificat.
Eu vreau sa am avantaje fata de folosirea lui GNU/Linux pe desktop.
Inca nu am vazut avantaje care sa il scoata in evidenta pe desktop.

Edited by Fratello_2007, 21 January 2011 - 10:15.


#92
JJackFLASH

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View PostFratello_2007, on 21st January 2011, 10:15, said:

Inca nu am vazut avantaje care sa il scoata in evidenta pe desktop.
Nu ai vazut fiindca nu ai vrut sa le vezi.

#93
Fratello_2007

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Incearca sa fii obiectiv.
Nu ai postat avantaje ce tin de partea desktop.

#94
JJackFLASH

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View PostFratello_2007, on 21st January 2011, 10:22, said:

Incearca sa fii obiectiv.
Nu ai postat avantaje ce tin de partea desktop.
Incearca sa fii explicit.
Nu ai specificat de care avantaje desktop esti preocupat.

#95
Fratello_2007

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Eu incerc sa aflu ce avantaje imi aduce un *BSD fata de GNU/Linux.
Nu conteaza unde, conteaza ce stie el sa faca mai bine pe un desktop sau workstation.

#96
same75

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Diferentele dintre BSD si Linux sunt mai degraba de filosofie si de bucatarie interna decat ceva sesizabil la nivel de desktop.

#97
JJackFLASH

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View PostFratello_2007, on 21st January 2011, 10:27, said:

Eu incerc sa aflu ce avantaje imi aduce un *BSD fata de GNU/Linux.
Nu conteaza unde, conteaza ce stie el sa faca mai bine pe un desktop sau workstation.
Ceea ce inseamna pentru mine desktop poate sa difere mult
de  ceea ce considera altii.
Spre exemplu, eu nu fac deosebire intre
system console si X-server+ window manager .
Le privesc ca pe doua ipostaze ale sistemului de operare pe care il utilizez.
Daca vreau sa recodez un set de fisiere *.VOB in *.avi sau *.mkv,
eu nu am neaparata nevoie sa rulez Xorg.
Nici mencoder nu are nevoie de Xorg pentru a-si face treaba.
La fel si burncd cdrecord mkisofs growisofs mutt mail elm.
Daca vreau sa fac un schimb de fisiere cu o masina din reteaua locala,
pornesc SAMBA, sau deschid FTP-ul temporar.
Pentru aplicatii grafice rulez Fluxbox , pe care l-am customizat
conform necesitatilor mele. Este estetic, comod in utilizare,
nu are nimic de prisos.
Pentru securitate pot rula 3 firewall-uri ( ipfw -FreeBSD, ipf-NetBSD si pf-OpenBSD )
simultan.
*BSD nu stie de runlevels -aici este mai simplu:
multiuser mode vs. single-user mode
Spre deosebire de distributiile Linux, lansarea daemonilor in executie este
controlata de un singur fisier - /etc/rc.conf cu o sintaxa usor de inteles.
Editarea manuala a fisierelor de configurare o gasesc mai lesne decat
sa bifezi/debifezi service-urile in YaST , Drakconf sau Service Configuration Tool.
Sa instalezi un kernel custom in FreeBSD este mai usor,
deoarece nu trebuie sa te plimbi printr-un labirint de meniuri
ca in Linux. Editezi manual fisierul de configurare.
Poftim un exemplu:
cpu		I686_CPU		# aka Pentium 4
ident		MYKERNEL
makeoptions	 NO_MODULES=yes
# This allows you to actually store this configuration file into
# the kernel binary itself. See config(8) for more details.
options 	INCLUDE_CONFIG_FILE	 # Include this file in kernel 
options 	GEOM_BDE		# Disk encryption.
options 	GEOM_ELI		# Disk encryption.
options 	GEOM_LABEL		# Providers labelization.
options 	GEOM_MBR		# DOS/MBR partitioning
options 	GEOM_UZIP		# Read-only compressed disks
options 	GEOM_VOL		# Volume names from UFS superblock
# Scheduler options:
options 	SCHED_ULE			   # ULE scheduler
options 	PREEMPTION			  # Enable kernel thread preemption
# COMPATIBILITY OPTIONS
options 	COMPAT_43
options 	COMPAT_43TTY		# BSD 4.3 TTY compat (sgtty)
options 	COMPAT_FREEBSD4		# Compatible with FreeBSD4
options 	COMPAT_FREEBSD5		# Compatible with FreeBSD5
options 	COMPAT_FREEBSD6		# Compatible with FreeBSD6
options 	COMPAT_FREEBSD7		# Compatible with FreeBSD7
options 	SYSVSHM			# SYSV-style shared memory
options 	SYSVMSG			# SYSV-style message queues
options 	SYSVSEM			# SYSV-style semaphores
# DEBUGGING OPTIONS
# NO_SYSCTL_DESCR omits the sysctl node descriptions to save space in the
# resulting kernel.
options		NO_SYSCTL_DESCR
#####################################################################
# NETWORKING OPTIONS
options 	INET			#Internet communications protocols
options 	IPSEC			#IP security (requires device crypto)
# Network interfaces:
#  The `loop' device is MANDATORY when networking is enabled.
device		loop
#  The `ether' device provides generic code to handle
#  Ethernets; it is MANDATORY when an Ethernet device driver is
#  configured or token-ring is enabled.
device		ether
#  The `bpf' device enables the Berkeley Packet Filter.  Be
#  aware of the legal and administrative consequences of enabling this
#  option.  The number of devices determines the maximum number of
#  simultaneous BPF clients programs runnable.  DHCP requires bpf.
device		bpf
# The pf packet filter consists of three devices:
#  The `pf' device prodevice		soundvides /dev/pf and the firewall code itself.
#  The `pflog' device provides the pflog0 interface which logs packets.
#  The `pfsync' device provides the pfsync0 interface used for
#   synchronization of firewall state tables (over the net).
device		pf
device		pflog
device		pfsync
# Internet family options:
# IPFIREWALL enables support for IP firewall construction, in
# conjunction with the `ipfw' program.  IPFIREWALL_VERBOSE sends
# logged packets to the system logger.  IPFIREWALL_VERBOSE_LIMIT
# limits the number of times a matching entry can be logged.
options 	IPFIREWALL		#firewall
options 	IPFIREWALL_VERBOSE	#enable logging to syslogd(8)
options 	IPFIREWALL_VERBOSE_LIMIT=100	#limit verbosity
options 	IPFIREWALL_DEFAULT_TO_ACCEPT	#allow everything by default
options 	IPDIVERT		#divert sockets
options 	IPFILTER		#ipfilter support
options 	IPFILTER_LOG		#ipfilter logging
options 	IPFILTER_LOOKUP		#ipfilter pools
options 	IPFILTER_DEFAULT_BLOCK	#block all packets by default
options 	IPSTEALTH		#support for stealth forwarding
# Statically Link in accept filters
options 	ACCEPT_FILTER_DATA
options 	ACCEPT_FILTER_DNS
options 	ACCEPT_FILTER_HTTP
#####################################################################
# FILESYSTEM OPTIONS
# One of these is mandatory:
options 	FFS			#Fast filesystem
# The rest are optional:
options 	CD9660			#ISO 9660 filesystem
options 	MSDOSFS			#MS DOS File System (FAT, FAT32)
options 	PROCFS			#Process filesystem (requires PSEUDOFS)
options 	PSEUDOFS		#Pseudo-filesystem framework
options 	UDF			#Universal Disk Format
# Soft updates is a technique for improving filesystem speed and
# making abrupt shutdown less risky.
#
options 	SOFTUPDATES
# Extended attributes allow additional data to be associated with files,
# and is used for ACLs, Capabilities, and MAC labels.
# See src/sys/ufs/ufs/README.extattr for more information.
options 	UFS_EXTATTR
options 	UFS_EXTATTR_AUTOSTART
# Access Control List support for UFS filesystems.  The current ACL
# implementation requires extended attribute support, UFS_EXTATTR,
# for the underlying filesystem.
# See src/sys/ufs/ufs/README.acls for more information.
options 	UFS_ACL
# If you are running a machine just as a fileserver for PC and MAC
# users, using SAMBA or Netatalk, you may consider setting this option
# and keeping all those users' directories on a filesystem that is
# mounted with the suiddir option. This gives new files the same
# ownership as the directory (similar to group). It's a security hole
# if you let these users run programs, so confine it to file-servers
# (but it'll save you lots of headaches in those cases). Root owned
# directories are exempt and X bits are cleared. The suid bit must be
# set on the directory as well; see chmod(1) PC owners can't see/set
# ownerships so they keep getting their toes trodden on. This saves
# you all the support calls as the filesystem it's used on will act as
# they expect: "It's my dir so it must be my file".
#
options 	SUIDDIR
# Use real implementations of the aio_* system calls.  There are numerous
# stability and security issues in the current aio code that make it
# unsuitable for inclusion on machines with untrusted local users.
options 	VFS_AIO
# Cryptographically secure random number generator; /dev/random
device		random
# Optional character code conversion support with LIBICONV.
# Each option requires their base file system and LIBICONV.
options 	CD9660_ICONV
options 	MSDOSFS_ICONV
options 	UDF_ICONV
#####################################################################
# CLOCK OPTIONS
options 	HZ=100
#####################################################################
# SCSI DEVICES
# SCSI DEVICE CONFIGURATION
device		scbus		#base SCSI code
device		da		#SCSI direct access devices (aka disks)
device		cd		#SCSI CD-ROMs
device		pass		#CAM passthrough driver
#####################################################################
# MISCELLANEOUS DEVICES AND OPTIONS
device		pty		#BSD-style compatibility pseudo ttys
device		md		#Memory/malloc disk
device		snp		#Snoop device - to look at pty/vty/etc..
device		ccd		#Concatenated disk driver
# Kernel side iconv library
options 	LIBICONV
#####################################################################
# HARDWARE DEVICE CONFIGURATION
device		eisa			# The EISA bus device is `eisa'.  It provides auto-detection and
device		pci			 # PCI bus & PCI options
device		agp			 # AGP GART support
# The syscons console driver (SCO color console compatible).
device		sc
options 	MAXCONS=16		# number of virtual consoles
options 	SC_PIXEL_MODE		# add support for the raster text mode
options		VESA			# support for VESA VGA video modes
device		vga			# Video card driver for VGA adapters.
# ACPI support using the Intel ACPI Component Architecture reference
# implementation.
#
# ACPI_DEBUG enables the use of the debug.acpi.level and debug.acpi.layer
# kernel environment variables to select initial debugging levels for the
# Intel ACPICA code.  (Note that the Intel code must also have USE_DEBUGGER
# defined when it is built).
device		acpi
# Direct Rendering modules for 3D acceleration.
device		drm		# DRM core module required by DRM drivers
device		i915drm		# Intel i830 through i915
# The 'ATA' driver supports all ATA and ATAPI devices, including PC Card
# devices. You only need one "device ata" for it to find all
# PCI and PC Card ATA/ATAPI devices on modern machines.
# Alternatively, individual bus and chipset drivers may be chosen by using
# the 'atacore' driver then selecting the drivers on a per vendor basis.
# For example to build a system which only supports a VIA chipset,
# omit 'ata' and include the 'atacore', 'atapci' and 'atavia' drivers.
device		ata
device		atadisk		# ATA disk drives
device		atapicd		# ATAPI CDROM drives
device		atapifd		# ATAPI floppy drives
device		atapicam	# emulate ATAPI devices as SCSI ditto via CAM
				# needs CAM to be present (scbus & pass)
# Modular ATA
device		atacore		# Core ATA functionality
device		ataintel	# Intel
# Standard floppy disk controllers and floppy tapes, supports
# the Y-E DATA External FDD (PC Card)
#
device		fdc
# uart: newbusified driver for serial interfaces.  It consolidates the sio(4),
#	sab(4) and zs(4) drivers.
device		uart
# Network interfaces:
# MII bus support is required for some PCI 10/100 ethernet NICs,
# namely those which use MII-compliant transceivers or implement
# transceiver control interfaces that operate like an MII. Adding
# "device miibus" to the kernel config pulls in support for
# the generic miibus API and all of the PHY drivers, including a
# generic one for PHYs that aren't specifically handled by an
# individual driver.
device		miibus
# PCI Ethernet NICs that use the common MII bus controller code.
device		fxp		# Intel EtherExpress PRO/100B (82557, 82558)
# Sound drivers
device		sound		   # sound: The generic sound driver.
device		snd_ich		 # Intel ICH AC'97 and some more audio controllers embedded in a chipset, 
# Parallel-Port Bus
device		ppc			 # ppc	ISA-bus parallel port interfaces.
device		ppbus		# Parallel port bus (required)
#####################################################################
# USB support
device		uhci			# UHCI controller
device		ehci			# EHCI controller
device		usb			 # General USB code (mandatory for USB)
device		uhid			# Human Interface Device (anything with buttons and dials)
device		ukbd			# USB keyboard
device		ums			 # USB mouse
#####################################################################
# crypto subsystem
# This is a port of the OpenBSD crypto framework.  Include this when
# configuring IPSEC and when you have a h/w crypto device to accelerate
# user applications that link to OpenSSL.
#
# Drivers are ports from OpenBSD with some simple enhancements that have
# been fed back to OpenBSD.
device		crypto		# core crypto support
device		cryptodev	# /dev/crypto for access to h/w
#####################################################################
# ABI Emulation
options 	COMPAT_LINUX	# Enable Linux ABI emulation
options 	LINPROCFS	   # Enable the linux-like proc filesystem support
options 	LINSYSFS		# Enable the linux-like sys filesystem support 

Poti da sugestii solutii pe forumuri, in IM , scriind doar niste cuvinte ,
totodata excluzand orice echivoc sau confuzie.
Cu Linux asta n-ai sa o faci atat de simplu.
Pentru gestionarea aplicatiilor exista pkgtools
si mecanismul de porturi + portupgrade/portmaster.
Chiar astazi am updatat mc cu portupgrade
pkg_add -r mc aducea din repozitorii versiunea 4.7.2
portupgrade mc a inlocuit 4.7.4 cu 4.7.5.

Edited by JJackFLASH, 21 January 2011 - 20:09.


#98
neagu_laurentiu

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View PostJJackFLASH, on 21st January 2011, 20:07, said:

Ceea ce inseamna pentru mine desktop poate sa difere mult de  ceea ce considera altii.
Cred ca si tu esti convis ca +90% din useri nu se afla in profilul tau sau al acestui traditionalism UNIX.

#99
same75

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View PostJJackFLASH, on 21st January 2011, 20:07, said:

Ceea ce inseamna pentru mine desktop poate sa difere mult de  ceea ce considera altii.

Ce ai enumerat tu acolo, se poate fix la fel de usor si pe linux. Nu vrei sa configurezi kernelul cu xconfig sau menuconfig? Nu ai decat sa editezi fisierul .config pana iti vine rau. Vrei sa configurezi linuxul cu vim si nu cu uneltele dedicate? Nu ai decat sa modifici fisierele de config cu vim. Eu sunt unul din cei care pornesc konsole imediat dupa ce booteaza sistemul, nu folosesc uneltele grafice decat cand este strict necesar (development, browsing, email).

#100
JJackFLASH

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View Postsame75, on 21st January 2011, 22:41, said:

Nu ai decat sa editezi fisierul .config pana iti vine rau.
Ba chiar are sa-ti vina rau, caci din cate imi pare mie,
nu poti sa excluzi din fisier nici o linie.
Pe cand in BSD il faci prin copy & paste foarte lejer.
Fisierul postat mai sus l-am creat copiind randuri
din /sys/conf/conf/NOTES si /sys/i386/conf/NOTES .

#101
same75

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In plus, daca e sa comparam package managementul, portage din Gentoo este cel putin la fel de puternic ca ports. Si in mod sigur, portage este mult mai flexibil si mai coerent decat ports (prin multimea de variabile USE disponibile pentru aproape toate aplicatiile si prin faptul ca nu e nevoie de carpeli precum portupgrade). Mai mult, portage suporta si overlays (repository-uri neoficiale), slots (permite instalarea mai multor versiuni ale unui pachet) si tot felul de unelte care imi permit sa comut instantaneu de la o versiune la alta (de exemplu am gcc 3.x, 4.1, 4.2, 4.3, 4.4 si pot sa schimb intre ele printr-o simpla comanda). Pot sa mixez lejer ramura stabila cu cea unstable doar setand un flag la pachetele care ma intereseaza. Si multe multe alte chestii de care nu-mi aduc aminte acum.

View PostJJackFLASH, on 21st January 2011, 22:49, said:

Ba chiar are sa-ti vina rau, caci din cate imi pare mie,
nu poti sa excluzi din fisier nici o linie.

Nu am facut asta niciodata, dar as paria ca nu e nici o problema daca stergi din .config liniile comentate. Si oricum, faptul ca BSD nu are un tool ca menuconfig, e de fapt o mare lipsa si nu un avantaj. Pentru ca in menuconfig am si help, imi seteaza corect si dependentele. Iar toate chestiile sunt frumos organizate pe categorii, ca sa le gasesti mai usor. Iar daca tot nu gasesti o anumita optiune, apesi / si iti apare un dialog de cautare.

#102
ix_

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S-a ajuns la un fel de concurs de masurare, care o are mai mare?  :rolleyes:

Eu sunt foarte multumit cu ce am, nu-mi trebuie nici BSD, nici Gentoo nici alte minunatii. Am alte lucruri mai interesante de facut cu viata mea decat sa configurez fisiere obscure.

#103
same75

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Depinde ce meserie ai, unii sunt platiti ca sa configureze fisiere obscure :) Sau poate au nevoie sa stoarca tot ce se poate dintr-un sistem de operare.

Oricum, daca nu exista Gentoo, probabil si acum as fi un vajnic FreeBSD user :)

#104
ix_

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View Postsame75, on 21st January 2011, 23:18, said:

Depinde ce meserie ai, unii sunt platiti ca sa configureze fisiere obscure :) Sau poate au nevoie sa stoarca tot ce se poate dintr-un sistem de operare.
Ma indoiesc in mod serios de avantajele unui sistem de operare ca Gentoo sau FreeBSD in raport cu alte distributii de Linux, cum ar fi RHEL, Debian, Ubuntu.

Pentru un server, as folosi Debian sau o clona de RHEL.
Pentru desktop, Ubuntu, Fedora, sau Debian in cazul meu, sunt excelente.

#105
JJackFLASH

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View Postsame75, on 21st January 2011, 23:01, said:

multimea de variabile USE disponibile pentru aproape toate aplicatiile

Exista /etc/make.conf
# The CPUTYPE variable controls which processor should be targeted for
# generated code.  This controls processor-specific optimizations in
# certain code (currently only OpenSSL) as well as modifying the value
# of CFLAGS to contain the appropriate optimization directive to gcc.
# The automatic setting of CFLAGS may be overridden using the
# NO_CPU_CFLAGS variable below.
# Currently the following CPU types are recognized:
#   Intel x86 architecture:
#	   (AMD CPUs)	opteron athlon64 athlon-mp athlon-xp athlon-4
#			athlon-tbird athlon k8 k6-3 k6-2 k6 k5
#	   (Intel CPUs)	core2 core nocona pentium4m pentium4 prescott
#			pentium3m pentium3 pentium-m pentium2
#			pentiumpro pentium-mmx pentium i486 i386
#	   (Via CPUs)	c3 c3-2
#   Alpha/AXP architecture: ev67 ev6 pca56 ev56 ev5 ev45 ev4
#   AMD64 architecture: opteron, athlon64, nocona, prescott, core2
#   Intel ia64 architecture: itanium2, itanium
#
# (?= allows to buildworld for a different CPUTYPE.)
#
 CPUTYPE?=pentium4
#NO_CPU_CFLAGS=		# Don't add -march=<cpu> to CFLAGS automatically
#NO_CPU_COPTFLAGS=	# Don't add -march=<cpu> to COPTFLAGS automatically


Si pentru ports sunt indicatii suplimentare pentru acei care vor sa stie
ceva mai mult decat make install clean.
Dar nimeni nu va risca sa compileze binarii cu optimizari genul -O3 .
Pentru o performanta indoielnica risti sa faci sistemul instabil.

View Postsame75, on 21st January 2011, 23:01, said:

nu e nevoie de carpeli precum portupgrade).
Works like a charm!

View Postsame75, on 21st January 2011, 23:01, said:

portage suporta si overlays (repository-uri neoficiale), slots (permite instalarea mai multor versiuni ale unui pachet) si tot felul de unelte care imi permit sa comut instantaneu de la o versiune la alta (de exemplu am gcc 3.x, 4.1, 4.2, 4.3, 4.4 si pot sa schimb intre ele printr-o simpla comanda). Pot sa mixez lejer ramura stabila cu cea unstable doar setand un flag la pachetele care ma intereseaza. Si multe multe alte chestii de care nu-mi aduc aminte acum.
Exact . Daca vrei sa-ti prefaci sistemul intr-o groapa de gunoi,
n-ai decat sa amesteci pachetele din repozitoriile oficiale cu
acele neoficiale iar apoi sa mai mixezi ramura stable cu acea unstable.
Gentoo nu va razbate niciodata in sectorul corporativ  :nonobad:.
Va ramane doar o jucarie pentru linuxoizi cu ochii rosiii.


View Postsame75, on 21st January 2011, 23:06, said:

Pentru ca in menuconfig am si help, imi seteaza corect si dependentele. Iar toate chestiile sunt frumos organizate pe categorii, ca sa le gasesti mai usor. Iar daca tot nu gasesti o anumita optiune, apesi / si iti apare un dialog de cautare.
Eh, de parca nu am mai vazut eu Linux si nu stiu.
Acolo mai sunt si optiuni nedocumentate, si tu stii bine asta.

#106
same75

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View Postix_, on 21st January 2011, 23:24, said:

Pentru un server, as folosi Debian sau o clona de RHEL.
In mod normal, da, si eu folosesc CentOS pe servere. Dar hai sa vad cum instalezi postfix cu suport mysql pe un centos, fara sa folosesti rpmbuild si fara sa folosesti repository-uri neoficiale. Sunt anumite chestii pe care nu le poti face pe un OS cu pachete binare.

#107
ix_

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View Postsame75, on 21st January 2011, 23:59, said:

Dar hai sa vad cum instalezi postfix cu suport mysql pe un CentOS, fara sa folosesti rpmbuild si fara sa folosesti repository-uri neoficiale.
Nu vrei si legat la ochi si cu mainile la spate?
Poate ca exista unele chestii pe care le face mai bine Gentoo, dar nu e postfix-ul cu mysql si, orice ar fi, nu cred ca merita efortul. Gentoo nu e destul de stabil pentru un server.

#108
same75

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View PostJJackFLASH, on 21st January 2011, 23:33, said:

Exista /etc/make.conf
Si pentru ports sunt indicatii suplimentare pentru acei care vor sa stie
ceva mai mult decat make install clean.
Dar nimeni nu va risca sa compileze binarii cu optimizari genul -O3 .
Pentru o performanta indoielnica risti sa faci sistemul instabil
Eu nu ma refer la CFLAGS, ca nu-mi bat capul cu ala, am in el -O2 si atat. Ma refer la USE, care imi permite sa bag intr-un pachet doar optiunile de care am intr-adevar nevoie. Stiu ca are si FreeBSD asa ceva, dar e inconsecvent si nu foarte bogat in optiuni.

View PostJJackFLASH, on 21st January 2011, 23:33, said:

Works like a charm!
Corect, dar tot o carpeala ramane.

View PostJJackFLASH, on 21st January 2011, 23:33, said:

Exact . Daca vrei sa-ti prefaci sistemul intr-o groapa de gunoi,
n-ai decat sa amesteci pachetele din repozitoriile oficiale cu
acele neoficiale iar apoi sa mai mixezi ramura stable cu acea unstable.
Daca folosesti optiunile pe care le ai la dispozitie cu simt de raspundere, nu se intampla nimic. Daca tii cu tot dinadinsul sa-ti faci sistemul varza, e posibil sa o faci indiferent ca e CentOS, bsd sau gentoo.

View PostJJackFLASH, on 21st January 2011, 23:33, said:

Gentoo nu va razbate niciodata in sectorul corporativ  :nonobad:.
Nu vad de ce nu ar ajunge in sectorul corporativ, e un Linux ca oricare altul. Si oricum, nu e mai rau decat bsd, pentru ca au cam aceeasi filosofie, portage e inspirat din ports (de exemplu, ce crezi ca face emerge world? :)). Ba chiar exista o versiune Gentoo/FreeBSD.

View PostJJackFLASH, on 21st January 2011, 23:33, said:

Va ramane doar o jucarie pentru linuxoizi cu ochii rosiii.
Mai curand as avea ochii rosii incercand sa conving un sistem de operare sa faca ceva pentru care nu a fost gandit :)

View PostJJackFLASH, on 21st January 2011, 23:33, said:

Eh, de parca nu am mai vazut eu Linux si nu stiu.
Acolo mai sunt si optiuni nedocumentate, si tu stii bine asta.
Da, "mai sunt". Dar majoritatea sunt documentate.

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