Babilonienii

In primul rand de ce babilonie a ajuns sa denumeasca o incurcatura, un amestec ?

In al doilea rand erau babilonienii si asirienii un singur popor sau doua popoare diferite ? Au vreo legatura asa-zisii asirieni de azi cu babilonienii antici ?



Multumesc

Edited by octavvv, 29 April 2016 - 21:59.

Tu ai impresia că ai apelat serviciul clienți, secția Istorie?

Așteaptă atunci până prinzi liber un consultant.

Doamne...hal de topic!

Poate te lamureste asta : https://ro.wikipedia...ki/Turnul_Babel

octavvv, on 29 aprilie 2016 - 21:59, said:

Ai auzit vreodata de Turnul Babel?
Daca nu,este un start in ceea ce te intereseaza.
Succes in cautare.

passila +1
Am postat concomitent.

spider_zero_sapte, on 29 aprilie 2016 - 22:03, said:

Posibil ca Sucre sa fie ocupat.

Edited by adisz, 29 April 2016 - 22:07.

De parcă nu sunt suficiente ”documentare” pe YTB?
Și nici nu a specificat dacă dă fundă...

Asirienii de ieri ?

octavvv, on 29 aprilie 2016 - 21:59, said:

1 Turnul babel in campia Sinearului adica Mesopotamia  defapt ar fi vorba de niste zigurate, temple in trepte de unde lea venit inspiratia scriitorilor Bibliei sa scrie povestea cu Turnul Bael acolo unde conform legendei sau incurcat limbiile pamantului ( inainte toti vorbeau aceeasi limba si El sa suparat ca au facut turnul si lea incurcat limbiile )
2 Babilon era un oras in sudul Mesopotamiei , Mesopotamia locuita de sumerieni apoi Akadieni, semiti etc , Asirienii erau localizati in nordul Mesopotamiei  in zona oraselor Ninive si Nipur, si au supus  prin 700 i.h toata Mesopotamia plus Palestina

Edited by Sucre-Bolivar88, 29 April 2016 - 22:15.

Mai pe înțelesul tuturor un fel de brusãl.și ãsta a supus juma' dã ioropie și fiecare pe limba lui piere...noroc de niște cãscuțe...de se înțeleg...babilonienii...n'aveau. Sau nu ni se spune...cã mulle chestii stau ascunse ghini di tãt...
Istoria se repetã fix identic la fel.
Urmeazã aia cu privitu'napoi,
Lumina
Întunericu
Adam
De aici știți exact ce și cum..e scris pe toți pereții

Interesant, nimãnui nu i-a venit ideea de a scrie un "bis"...doi poveștii cu mãrul...
Se spune cã de 4 ori a fost repovestitã.

Edited by sarac.lipit, 29 April 2016 - 22:48.

Ca sa explic mai simplu : Babilon era un oraș cosmopolit! Locuiau oameni aparținând multor nații, se vorbeau multe limbi fapt ce a dus la apariția termenului.

Plagiatorule...hehehe

Babilonienii au inceput sa construiasca un turn inalt care sa ajunga pana la cer. Atunci Dumenezeu drept pedeapsa a dat ca fiecare sa vorbeasca alta limba, caci pana atunci pe pamant toata lumea vorbea o singura limba.

Oh, pe coada de sarpe lui Tiamat si barba lui Marduk, tocmai cand vazui titlul topicului astuia, m-am minunat ca o sa vad ceva informatii interesante dezvaluite despre civilizatia babiloniana sau un articol interesant.....si cand colo, ce vad?

Unu' care s-a trezit din betia de Vinerea Mare  si s-a pus sa citeasca Vechiul Testament, ajungand la capitolul cu Turnul Babel si nelamurit fiind cu limbajul biblic,  s-a pus bage o intrebare de noob ca si cum nu ar exista  Sfantul Goagal .

He....hai sa salvezi eu topicul asta  de la mediocritate:

[ https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/Mcb8JtyQDJ4?feature=oembed - Pentru incarcare in pagina (embed) Click aici ]

[ https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/sohXPx_XZ6Y?feature=oembed - Pentru incarcare in pagina (embed) Click aici ]

[ https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/_EPc6Gn9-zs?feature=oembed - Pentru incarcare in pagina (embed) Click aici ]

[ https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/I1Hbht4iNQg?feature=oembed - Pentru incarcare in pagina (embed) Click aici ]

Edited by GamerXx, 30 April 2016 - 00:31.

Am deschis acest topic pentru a se discuta aici orice despre babilonieni, un fel de topic general. Intrebarile mele nu s-au vrut a fi decat un punct de plecare a discutiei. Da, ar fi trebuit sa precizez asta de la inceput.

octavvv, on 08 ianuarie 2018 - 19:41, said:

Mai, initiativa e buna dar sa stii ca de fapt mare branza nu avem despre ei.

Mai precis, hai sa va deprim eu nitel, asa cum ma pricep:
- avem destul de multa informatie, mai specific MILIOANE de tablite de lut, dar din care doar cateva MII au fost descifrate; grosul lor in anii 1830-1920, dupa care in general pauza; sa fie oare ca istoria din ele nu pusca cu cea oficialaaaa?...
- cata informatie avem e FOARTE prost interpretata, ca sa corespunda unor axiome despre Mesopotamia care nu-i deloc sigur ca-s reale
- hell, pana si frazele clare din texte bine cunoscute sunt traduse aiurea, de pilda frazele biblice despre marile PADURI ale Arabiei sunt traduse ''deserturi'', ca doar toata lumea stie ca Arabia a fost mereu desert in ultimele 6-7 milenii, nu?
- exista si multe descoperiri arheologice cat se poate de palpabile dar, care n-au fost distruse de ISIS sau ingropate in muzee, au fost interpretate aiurea; de pilda se pare ca SUMERIENII sunt o inventie; va puteti da seama? se pare ca niste idioti sau poate escroci sau rauvoitori au amestecat niste ramasite akkadiene cu ramasite scite si le-au grupat cu niste legende mesopotamiene si au inventat un popor

Ca sa fim cat de cat clari, de fapt nu stim nimic sigur despre istoria lumii inainte de 700BC, cu optimism.
Si dupa pot fi niste surprize mari dar ma rog.
Ideea e ca inainte de 700BC scrierile sunt mai putine, popoarele se pare ca traiau in alte locuri, vorbeau alte limbi, si erau mai izolate unele de altele, abia de atunci incepi sa recunosti tiparele antichitatii clasice pe care le intelegi, iar documentele si vestigiile incep sa se coreleze si verifice reciproc.

Edited by grrrrr, 09 January 2018 - 10:29.

grrrrr, on 09 ianuarie 2018 - 10:23, said:

Hai ca asta-i buna, unde ai citit asa ceva?

octavvv, on 09 ianuarie 2018 - 19:57, said:

Ei unde, in tablitele inca nedescifrate

http://immanuelvelik...illars-vol1.pdf
Paginile 224-359.
Cap.8 - Mesopotamia and ghost empires.

“The unearthing of this forgotten culture is one of the romances of archaeology. To those whom . . . we call ‘the ancients’—that is, the Romans, the Greeks, and the Jews—Sumeria was unknown. Herodotus apparently never heard of it, as something more ancient to him than he to us. Berosus, a Babylonian historian writing about 250 B.C., knew of a land called Sumeria only through the veil of legend. He described a race of monsters led by one Oannes, coming out of the Persian Gulf, and introducing the arts of agriculture, metal working and writing; . . .Not till two thousand years after Berosus was Sumeria rediscovered.”

Berosus had attempted to make the history of Mesopotamian civilization stretch as far back into the past as possible. Yet when he examined the evidence of his ancient homeland, he was unaware that such a civilization had existed. It is extremely difficult to accept such a highly improbable state of affairs in view of the great influence these so-called Sumerians are supposed to have had on all the empires that followed them.

Cap.13 - Scythian princes in the royal tombs of Ur

Here Cardona makes it quite clear that the knew that Heinsohn held that the Scythians were described as “co-conquerors” of southern Mesopotamia “on the side of the Assyrians” and were not identified by Heinsohn as Sumerians. After having written this statement he ignored it when he then accused Heinsohn of identifying the Scythians with the Sumerians.
But Cardona’s discussion does not explain why these so-called Sumerians were practicing this grisly form of burial as did the Scythians some 1500 years later. There are some indications that the Egyptians in their very early history may have sacrificed members of the royal court with their sovereign. Cardona writes about certain similarities between the Scythian and Sumerian graves but has failed to give us any evidence at all from Sumerian history, art, literature, religion, etc., for the Sumerians having ever been involved in this burial rite before this time or after.
Jacquetta Hawkes states that “. . . this practice [of human and animal sacrifice] seems in itself to have been abandoned after the period of the Ur tombs (representing some
two generations) . . .”
Though sacrifice of people, and animals, is known and was common, the only other known people outside Mesopotamia directly associated with its empires who practiced sacrificing the members of the king’s court and animals were the Scythians. Various theories have been advanced to explain this funerary rite but none has been generally accepted. In fact, the uniqueness of these burials at Ur is still being discussed and debated. However, if Heinsohn is correct, there is no enigma and the reason for these rites is quite obvious. Since this was an inherent practice of the Scythians in their homelands across south-eastern Europe and southern Russia to the Altai in southern Siberia, they would naturally take it with
them it when they ruled elsewhere, say, at Ur. P.R.S. Moorey in an updated version of Woolley’s Ur of the Chaldees, in referring to the people buried in the royal tombs at Ur, provocatively asks:
“Who then were the people who received such rites?”
Moorey did not ask: “Why did the Sumerians practice these rites?” No, he wonders and asks “Who were the people” that did so! Paul G. Bahn in 2001 echoes this problem:
“Questions still remain about the Royal Cemetery despite the many details provided by Woolley. Did the graves really contain remains of Sumerian royalty? Who were the sacrificial victims? Why did they die? Although the special nature of the tombs is clear, there is only slender evidence to indicate conclusively royal interment. . . .
“The mortuary practices in the Royal Tombs are unparalleled elsewhere in Mesopotamia, and they seem to have been an aberration unique to Ur within Sumerian culture.”
[emphasis added]

etc.

Edited by grrrrr, 10 January 2018 - 11:48.

Ma indoiesc totusi ca atatia istorici si arheologi care au studiat Mesopotamia s-au inselat sau au inventat cu totii aceasta civilizatie. Ce ar fi avut de castigat inventand-o?