Centrale termice (Seria 1)

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sau Grecia, iar toate placile din calculatorul meu sunt facute in China sau Taiwan, acolo unde este forta de munca mai ieftina. Asta nu inseamna ca sunt mai proaste. In general managentul si controlul calitatii stabilesc standardele
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Da, la PC asa e, ai dreptate, la electronica la fel, dar nu neaparat valabil la centrale... arzatoarele sunt din metale diferite in functie de fabrica, calitatea imbinarilor difera intre fabrici... de aia e si mai ieftina decit modelul "for Germany"... dotarile variaza.
Stii cum e... compara Ford facut in Germania cu Ford facut in Turcia... compara tabla  

Nu te contrazic, e posibil ca analogia sa nu fie cea mai fericita.

Apropos de aceasta "super tehnologie"

Nu e nimic nou ca noile centrale au aprindere electonica, modularea flacarii (puterii consumate) etc, deoarece sunt standarde de calitate ce trebuie indeplinite.

La clasa de care vorbim noi deosebirile constau in:

- tip schimbator termic
- modalitate de control (analogic/digital)
- fatada
- timpul in care ajunge apa calda la robinet.

In rest principiul de fct e identic si nu prea sufera modificari.
Daca ne hotaram asupra elementelor tehnice dorite, nu mai ramane decat sa stabilim elementle de control al consumului de combustibil.

- cronotermostat de ambient
- senzor de temperatura extern

Eu tot bat aici moneda pe Protherm si in spiritul celor scrise mai sus pot zice ca eu am gasit-o ca fiind ce mai buna alegere.

- schimbator bitermic (cupru+aluminiu)
- control digital realizat de un microprocesor preprogramat
- fatada si interfa de control super simpla si usor de folosit
- apa calda ajunge mult mai repede la robinet decat la un model Ariston si chiar fata de un Viessman (ambele detinute de vecinii mei)

Modularea puterii si implicit al consumului se face automat si conform celor spuse de producator, este foarte sensibila, asftel incat centrala isi modifica puterea consumata si temperatura AT in fct de temperatura externa, conform unor curbe prestabilite.
Nu trebui sa va bateti capul daca afara se face frig sau cald brusc.
Desigur, daca temperaturile prestabilite nu va convin, puteti interveni manual.

Un factor foarte important este desigur si pretul: 23 mil

Mie unuia inainte de a afla si de a achizitiona Protherm ma atragea Ferroli si imi repugna din cauza lipsei de facilitati Immergas & Hermann. Parca-s facute din topor !

Intre Ferroli si Protherm am ales Protherm Leopard pentru ca detine facilitati ce se regasesc doar in centralele din clasa superioara ca pret ~ 1000$

Atentie!

Protherm Lynx este un model nou, care nu este recomandat la mai mult de 2 camere, iar pentru 20 de euro in plus, luati-va un Leopard !

Dupa 3 zile de discutzii  :cya: se recomanda sa:
== nu cumparatzi firme cu renume ca dati banii doar pe firma si oricum probabil ca sunt facute tot pe langa noi pe-aci.. (poate doar pt. service sa fie recomandat)
== nu luati centrale cu 2 schimbatoare mai ales daca cel secundar e placi
== faceti instalatie din Cupru si caloriferele din otel tratat (nu turcesti!!)
==acordati atentie si la instalarea centralei si la garantia/service-ul acordat de firma

In rest va urez o iarna calduroasa  :  

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Courage  :   
Eu tot bat aici moneda pe Protherm si in spiritul celor scrise mai sus pot zice ca eu am gasit-o ca fiind ce mai buna alegere.

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Zi-mi si mie te rog o adresa a reprezentatiei Protherm in bucuresti,    au si showroom??? da macar o adresa sa ma duc si pe la ei!! merci anticipat ( eventual daca stii si pt. Ferolli zimi-o si pe aia :cool: )

http://www.secpralpro.ro

Showrom si reprezentanta gasesti la sucursale Bucuresti, in fosta uzina Semanatoarea, de la Grozavesti.

Cum iesi de la metrou casca ochii si vezi pe stalpi multe indicatoare catre Secpral.

La intrarea in fabrica intrebi si ai de mers pana in spatele curtii, dar merita.

Vezi si asta, pentru calculul estimativ.

http://www.secpralpr.../calculator.php

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aM SI EU O INFORMATIE DE ULTIMA ORA (nu stiu daca este adevarata-- ca nu am putut sa o verific din trei surse diferite) cica' FEROLLI e made in ROMANIA si nu numai e si 'gandita' la noi si mai exact in Pitesti... si chiar ziceti ca e BUNA???
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Hi hi, stai linistit, nu e corecta informatia... ce imaginatie... ce facilitati de productie stii tu la Pitesti ? Romanii sa gandeasca ceva care sa si mearga bine... si sa se mai dea si in Europa la standard ISO... e buna de o gluma Ar fi frumos sa facem si noi ceva, ar fi un motiv de mandrie dar eu nu stiu sa avem traditie  :0

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San Bonifacio (Verona) 1958. Five hundred natural gas fuelled boilers for council housing in Verona represented the first major order for the young company, Ferroli, run by the brothers, Dante, Leonardo and Luigi Ferroli.
Sons of Dante Ferroli, founder of the company bearing his name, avant-garde pioneer with an intuitive vision of future developments in the home and industrial heating market.
It was uphill all the way, drawing on the experience of the Ferroli family from Italy's Friuli region with its great iron and copper working tradition . But it was Dante Ferroli alone who was destined to remain at the helm of what would later be defined as the "heat bank" par excellence.
It was hard at the beginning - the morning dedicated to sales, the afternoon - and often the night as well - to producing the boilers.
And it was thanks to his enthusiasm, tenacity and tireless spirit that the Ferroli name became rapidly known and appreciated everywhere. A desire for growth, sound technical foundations and the insight of Dante Ferroli did the rest.
The former San Bonifacio workshop was ready for the great turning point. The rest, as they say, is history.
Today, that "workshop" covers over 100,000 sq m and is a true "headquarters of well-being" where all products for the four Ferroli divisions are designed and produced: heating, Air Conditioning, Whirlpool Tubs and multi-function Shower Cubicles and Electric Motors.
The heating, air-conditioning and plumbing markets are in constant evolution - demanding, competitive, ever more concerned with environmental respect and energy savings. This is why the company adopted a targeted marketing policy, constantly investing capital and human resources in research and development  of new, advanced and ever more flexible production technologies. And it didn't have to wait long for results.

Today, Ferroli S.p.A. offers a vast range of technologically advanced and safe products (ISO 9002 certification from the Dutch Gastec in 1993) with an excellent quality-price ratio, enabling them to compete with the best of European technology.
More than two million boilers sold in Europe, more than 1,700 employees, a streamlined sales organisation, an extensive network of service centres and constantly growing turnover.
These are just some of the facts and statistics making Ferroli S.p.A. a leader in the heating market.
But the story… goes on.
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== nu luati centrale cu 2 schimbatoare mai ales daca cel secundar e placi
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Corect !

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== faceti instalatie din Cupru si caloriferele din otel tratat (nu turcesti!!)
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Corect !

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==acordati atentie si la instalarea centralei si la garantia/service-ul acordat de firma
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In rest va urez o iarna calduroasa  :  



Si daca tot vorbim de tehnologie serioasa... sa uitati-va la ceva mai nou... centralele pe condensatie cu 100% eficienta... si aproape 0 noxe made by Ferroli: http://www.ferroli.i...gia_condens.cfm

Iar cand o sa vedeti cum arata si cum merge o centrala pe condensatie o sa ziceti ca celalalte sunt jucarii   E adevarat, sunt de 2x mai scumpe, chioar 3x in functie de marca dar tehnologia face banu si economie suplimentara.
Sunt mai multe firme mari care fac asemecea centrale, un ae in UK, una in Italia... in Franta Duval si mi se pare si in Germania au inceput Vaillant sa faca...
Asta e tehnologia inceputului de mileniu 3...

Stiti ca a aparut Motan Plus ?
Caracteristicile sunt impresionante, dar la ora asta nu mai gasesc prospectul de la Metro.
Poate maine...

A si asta e Made in Romania.
Se vinde foarte bine si pare a fi totusi ceva bun, insa trebuie vazut ce parere vor avea utilizatorii la anu

Da, am vazut Motanul...   Oricum, cred ca e doar asamblata aici... si electronica si senzorii sunt facute de altii... vorba ta, sa vedem cum merge in timp... 1 an e putin...
Iata si imaginea motanului  

www.andreicioaca.as.ro/utils/motan.jpg

La prima vedere aceiasi parametri ca orice centrala de apartament dar nu e schimbator dublu ci 2, probabil unu in placi.

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In Evenimentul Zilei de azi, este mentionat Immergas cu 1100000 bucati vandute anual numai in Italia, faptul ca este numarul 1 in Italia, si ca are 13% din piata
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Daca am ajuns sa ne luam dupa Ev Zilei si comercialitatile lor... suntem way departe de adevar  :cool:
Nu te-ai prins ca vor si ei sa intre pe piata si n-au loc de altzii... si platesc articole la comanda in ziare...



www.ferroli.co.uk
www.beko.co.uk

Zi-mi si mie ce treaba au Beko cu aia... care sunt niste simpli distribuitori si nu au ca obiect de activitate centrale termice... (ca doar de ele vorbim, vezi pe net arata-mi mie vreo centrala la iei).

Aia de zici tu ca sunt no1 in Italia cu doar 13% piata... (tu stii cum probabil) ar trebui sa ia exemplu de la altii si cand vor sa vanda in alte tari sa-si faca propriul lant de distributie daca au muschi, nu rebrand-uri  

Anyway, uite mai jos despre Beko pe site-ul oficial... ciudat e ca nici vorba de centrale de orice fel, nu neaparat Immergas... ciudat nu ? Pare ca o informatie scoasa la comanda...
Apropo, reprezinti cumva vreun distribuitor ?  

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Beko is a subsidiary of a large multinational group which is one of the top 500 largest companies in the
world with over 40 years experience in the manufacture of home appliances and televisions.

The company is located in Watford with the responsibility for all sales, marketing, distribution and product
support activities for the UK and Southern Ireland.

The Beko Product portfolio covers the following product areas ·

Refrigeration: Fridges with icebox, Larders, upright freezers, conventional and Frost-Free Fridge Freezers.
Colour Television's: 14" - 33" in formats including Remote, Teletext, Nicam Digital Stereo Virtual Dolby and
Dolby Pro-Logic with wide screen options for 28" products and above.
Free-standing Cookers in both electric and gas,
Washing machines ranging from 1000-1200rpm.
Dishwashers - 4 and 7 programme versions.


All Beko products are manufactured in state of the art production facilities that are approved to the latest
European and international quality and environmental standards. Each product type is produced in its own
dedicated facility using some of the most developed production techniques and equipment in the world.

Research and development is seen as vital and is therefore given high priority. R&D operates out of a dedicated
10,000sqm facility which is home to a dedicated team of scientists and engineers devoted to the development
of high quality, reliable, stylish, efficient and environmentally friendly products.
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Heatline este marca inregistrata Beko Uk/Demirdokum...... am spus ca ar trebui sa stii mai bine despre ce vorbesti.......
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O fi cum zici tu... dar, la Beko UK pe site nu exista asa ceva... poate e vreo firma "fantoma"... ca sa mai si glumim un pic...

Anyway, eu zic asa, fiecare cu marca lui, nu are sens sa polemizam, tehnologic seamana intre ele insa vedem peste 10 ani ce centrala mai merge

Si eu cand am luat centrala am avut de ales si asta a fost aleasa din 2 motive, traditia lor in Italia si robustetea constructiei (am vazut-o demontata, am pipait componentele, mecanica, mi-au placut sistemele de siguranta, comutatoarele de presiune aer etc... (imi place tehnica in general)) si am gasit-o superioara celorlalte testate la vremea aia (Ariston, EuroStar si inca vreo 3 dar nu imi mai aduc aminte) care pareau tinichele, se strimbau daca le fortai putin etc...

La urma urmei, sunt doar 2-3 elemente de baza intr-o centrala, restul (digitalizari) e praf in ochii lumii... pompa si schimbatorul / turbina de aer... astea sunt elementele cheie si cu cea mai mare probabilitate de defect... (pompa mai ales) deci daca pe astea le ai bune de la inceput, poti sa ai si cea mai proasta marac de centrale, va merge bine  

===== :cya:
Lasa-le pe-alea in condensatie ca doar n-ai palat de incalzit
Si pls zi-mi unde am distribuitor Ferolli in bucuresti sa trec pe la ei... tu de unde ai luat-o???

Eu am luat-o de la Conforteh (pe Bd Grivita spre Chibrit, imediat dupa podul Constanta (pina in Chitila). Am luat de acolo ca ei sunt si dealeri de radiatoare DeLonghi (sunt doar 2 dealeri DeLonghi in Bucuresti) si am facut all-in-one, tot ei au si instalat cu tot cu bransarea la gaze (sunt autorizati), asa iese mai ieftin decit pe bucati, mai ales ca majoritatea dealerilor fac si reduceri daca iei totul de la iei si in final tot ajungi mai ieftin decit pe bucati. Sunt meseriasi.

La adresa asta gasesti lista completa pentru Bucuresti, nu stiu cit e de bine actualizata, vezi si tu, da cate un email la fiecare... si vezi ce au, ca pot sa nu aiba toti un anume model etc... [email protected]

http://www.ferroli.ro/distr_buc.htm

http://www.ferroli.ro/noi.htm

http://www.ferroli.ro/benef.htm

DemirDökĂŒm was the first company in Turkey to manufacture the cast-iron radiator, boiler, heater, the gas-fired instantaneous water-heater, the panel radiator and the combination boiler. Production began 46 years ago and in the year 2000, together with all DemirDökĂŒm employees, we celebrated our 46th anniversary with great pride and happiness.

DemirDökĂŒm was founded by the late Mr. Vehbi Koç, and because of his vision is today placed 90th among the largest 500 companies in Turkey. Consisting of 928 employees, 202 dealers and 294 qualified service stations we have become a huge organization and last year our achievement was recognized by ISO. In addition, DemirdökĂŒm’s BozĂŒyĂŒk Plant received the “ISO Environment Reward” on 6th July 2000.

Because of our advanced and modern technology DemirDökĂŒm is involved with many leading European companies. Among the companies DemirDökĂŒm exports to are Chappee, Chauffege Françaıs, Sanuier Duval (France); Wolf (Germany) and Beko U.K. 50% of our total exports consist of panel radiators. In the near future we intend to begin exporting Kazakhstan and other Turkish Republics. Our future target markets include China, India and South Africa.

We are living through an age of continuous change within communication. Our philosophy in this changing global market is to provide our customers with high quality products in the shortest time possible. Included with quick delivery is the importance we give to after-sales services. It is a combination of these factors that has enabled DemirDökĂŒm to move towards even higher goals.

Today, DemirDökĂŒm customers can take advantage of unprecedented rights. All DemirDökĂŒm standard products have a minimum of a 3-year total guarantee (some products offer 1-10 years).  

DemirDökĂŒm provides the customer with a 24-hour toll-free call service for heating and air-conditioning appliances. To ensure the success of this venture we have established a 7-day a week "DemirDökĂŒm Qualified Service Support" team which provides a constant service in all four corners of Turkey.

The beginning of November 1999 saw the transfer of the DemirDökĂŒm Head Office to Inegol. Having both Headquarters and the Production plant in one location has enabled product development and manufacturing to work side by side, efficiently and effectively.

As I consider our past, our present and the implications for our future I am convinced that together with our employees, service support teams, dealers and customers we will continue to be an exemplary success.

PANEL RADIATORS

DemirDökĂŒm started to produce panel radiators in 1979.The new factory, which has a 1.200.000m/year production capacity, was built in 1994.

DemirdökĂŒm is a unique producer in Turkey for the following reasons:

·  It was the first producer of Panel Radiators.

·  It has the largest capacity.

·  It is the first producer to have held the standard ISO 9002 since 1987.

·  It is the only producer offering a 10-year warranty.

·  It is the only producer of Panel Radiators with 25mm. pitch.

·  It is the only producer using zinc phosphate and water-based cathaphoric paint for coatings.

·  It is the only producer using the Power & Free conveyor system which provides a better surface quality and more productivity.

·  It is the only producer which tests Panel Radiators at 13 bar.

THE SUPERIOR PROPERTIES OF PANEL RADIATORS:

·  25mm pitch giving a very high heat output

·  Dipping type degreasing,

·  13 bar test pressure

·  Zinc phosphate coating against corrosion

·  Cathaphoric  primer coating for resistance

·  Epoxy polyester electrostatic powder coating as a top coat

THE CHARACTERISTICS OF PANEL RADIATORS:

Panel radiators are available in a wide product range:

·  6 different heights: 300,400,500,600,750,900 mm.

·  27 different lengths: from 400 mm. to 3000 mm. in 100 mm. increments

·  6 different depths: 10,11,20,21,22,33

·  5 different options: standard,valve at right / left,garniture at right / left,

·  3 grill alternatives: grilled,ungrilled,special gril

ETMK'98 Product Design Award
DemirDökĂŒm was presented with the 'ETMK 98 Best Product Design' award at the prestigious Odyssey show. With over 100 nominees from various parts of the world, DemirDökĂŒm has taken great pride in accepting the ETMK award.

CONSUMER AWARD

The Turkish Ministry for Industry and Business, on behalf of the ‘Consumer and Competition Protection Institute’ awarded DemirDökĂŒm the “Consumer Satisfaction Award”.

This prestigious ceremony was held at the Ankara Hilton Hotel on 20 March 1998. Germiyan Saatçioglu on behalf of DemirDökĂŒm accepted the esteemed award. The Industry and Business Minister Mr. Yalim Erez presented the award.

DemirDökĂŒm has continuously provided its understanding of customer satisfaction. Together with the Consumer Satisfaction Award we have been justified by the customer, that we have always provided the ultimate service, assisted the customer with product awareness via showrooms, visited the customer door to door and aided them with all questions that they had. Providing the customer with catalogues, prices and a free telephone service, is an initiative which we believe the customer deserves. Educational programs have also been introduced to provide the consumer with detailed knowledge of DemirDökĂŒm products. Various social activities and all other consumer satisfaction inspirations have clearly been the main reason why DemirDökĂŒm was decorated with the leading Consumer Award.

“DemirDökĂŒm, who has been presented with the ‘Consumer Satisfaction Award’, will always continue to supply its endless service to the customer”