Originea genetica a romanilor, studii asupra ADN-ului

 WestPoint, on 15 februarie 2017 - 12:33, said:

Truc se spune pe romineste, nu tric. Tric este pe englezește.
Ce preț a urcat? Nu a fost niciodată un prețpe persoană care să fi fost urcat cu prețul școlariyării. Tu habar nu ai ce vorbești și inventezi. A fost de la început clar banii pt școlarizare. Pt Pensionari nu s eplătea și nici pt copii preșcolari, așa că e absolut clar.
„Taxa trebuia platita in valuta forte, ori romanii nu aveau sa detina valuta forte.” Ce scrii tu, habarnistule? Taxa nu a plătit-o vreodată persoanele care plecau ci statele; Israelul și RFG. Ce treabă să aibă asta cu deținerea de valută? Era 5.000 de mărci pt un om cu școal- primară, 8 clase. Se mai adăuga dacă avea școală de meserii, liceu, institur, facultate. Cel mai mult se plătea pt cei care terminau medicina pt că era de 6 ani. Era 30.000 de mărci, ceea ce pt o fac de medicină nici nu e mult. Tu ce vrei acum, să nu fi încasat bani statul român pt asta? Păi, de ce trebuia să facă nemții școli pe banii noștri?

Confirm ce a scris Fane în postarea 359. Exact așa a fost atunci în comunism în privința pașapoartelor. Fane nu a exagerat cu nimic.

Edited by neafloricadinobor, 15 February 2017 - 21:50.

Avem la dispoziție deja doua studii genetice asupra originii românilor, probe care se completeaza reciproc, ambele in favoarea autohtoniei românilor incă din perioada neolitica.
Un studiu indică continuitatea românilor in spatiul carpato-danubiano-pontic incă din urmă cu cca. 3 milenii, iar al doilea studiu indică continuitatea noastră in acest spatiu incă din urma cu 6 milenii (cca. 4.ooo BC).
Studiile indică totodata lipsa legaturilor de rudenie cu populatia neolitică balcanică din primul val, adică inainte de 4.ooo BC, ceea ce indică faptul fie că populatia respectivă era prea rară in zonă, fie au urmat un traseu migrational in sus pe valea Dunării sau au intrat in Europa pe undeva pe la vest si s-au raspandit invers dinspre vest spre rasarit dealungul coastelor marii Mediterane.
Aceste dovezi nu neagă existenta fondului genetic provenit de la multe alte populatii care au traversat spatiul etno-lingvistic si etno-genetic românesc, ci indică o matrice nucleu solidă si majoritară in acest proces inca din urmă cu 6 milenii.
Mai exact invazia indo-europeană nu prea a contat la noi, nici venirea romanilor, nici a slavilor, samd.
In acest context ma intreb cum ar trebui să intelegem limba română ca origine si evolutie in timp si legaturile sale cu monolitul neoromanic apusean si aceasta nu doar din perioada indo-europeana ci chiar incepand cu 6.ooo BC.
Totul sună a protocronism, dar iată că genetica este o dovada in sine si mult mai puternica decat  imaginatia unor istorici sau a altora.

http://www.libertate...socanta-1150597

http://www.cunoastel...te-mai-departe/

http://adevaruldespr...-text-si-video/

 Infinitty, on 08 mai 2017 - 10:29, said:

Românii sunt urmaşii indo-europenilor. Ai indo-europenilor care s-a aşezat aici, venind dinspre nord-vestul Mării Negre, de mai mult de 6000 de ani.
Alţii au mers mai departe spre vest şi sud; de aceea limba română şi celelalte limbi romanice se aseamănă.

Da, insa indoeuropenii au migrat dupa cca. 2000 BC, insa daca consideram lucrurile ca desfasurandu-se cu cateva milenii mai inainte ...

Exista o ipoteza care spune ca Vechea Europa din Carpati sa fi fost un alt nucleu paleoindoeuropean alaturi de stepele eurasiatice si alaturi de alt nucleu mai recent ce ingloba Panonia si Cehia si Germania de podis, podisul Poloniei si Frantei.

La noi uniformizarea se observa in cadrul culturii Cucuteni si a Culturii Lineare, ultima mentionata fiind separata de Dunare de la est la vest.
https://www.google.r...p3vFTw-KBb9pAM:

Edited by Infinitty, 08 May 2017 - 12:37.

Migraţiile timpurii ale proto-indo-europenilor spre valea Dunării au avut loc, acum mai mult de 6000 ani. Nu acum 4000 ani.

Vezi David W. Anthony The Horse The Wheel And Language. How Bronze-Age Riders From the Eurasian Steppes Shaped The Modern World, 2010.

Ar mai fi de adăugat că vorbim de mii de ani de istorie, şi de regiuni învecinate. Probabil nu a fost vorba de o singură migraţie, ci de mişcări de populaţie repetate, în ambele sensuri.

Edited by Edit_XYZ, 09 May 2017 - 00:48.

Se observa o clara unitate si uniformizare stabila din perioada neolitică pana inspre perioada antică ( cu galben primele două harti,  si rosu penultima harta respectiv roscat-maro ultima:

[ https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/02/European-middle-neolithic-en.svg/1195px-European-middle-neolithic-en.svg.png - Pentru incarcare in pagina (embed) Click aici ]

[ https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/f3/fc/81/f3fc81d5ee0350190f7d0a9daffba453.jpg - Pentru incarcare in pagina (embed) Click aici ]

[ https://vieilleeurope.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/e41.png - Pentru incarcare in pagina (embed) Click aici ]

[ https://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/2424832_f520.jpg - Pentru incarcare in pagina (embed) Click aici ]

https://en.wikipedia...anians#Genetics

The prevailing element in Wallachia (Ploiești, Dolj), Moldavia (Piatra Neamț, Buhuși), Dobruja (Constanța), and northern Republic of Moldova is recorded to be Haplogroup I,[69] while the gene pool of Transylvania is often untypical and diverse.[70]
According to self-published data, the Y-DNA haplogroup frequencies of 962 Romanians (and unknown part of Moldovans) are as follows: 28% I2, 18% R1a, 15% R1b, 14% E1b1b, 14% J2, 4% I1, 3% G2a, 2% N1c, 1% J1, 1% T and Q.[71] On the basis of 361 samples, Haplogroup I occurs at 32% in Romanians.[72] The highest frequency of I2a1 (I-P37) in the Balkans today was present before the Slavic expansion and is owed to indigenous tribes,[73] and is particularly suggested to have been common among the ancient Thracians in Romania.[74]
Romanians according to genetic origin by Y-DNA haplogroup
Haplogroup I2
 
28%
Haplgroup R1a
 
18%
Haplogroup R1b
 
15%
Haplogroup E1b1b
 
14%
Haplogroup J2
 
14%
Haplogroup I1
 
4%
Other haplogroups
 
7%
According to 335 sampled Romanians, 15% of them belong to R1a.[75] Haplogroup R1a among Romanians is entirely from the Eastern European variety Z282 and may be a result of Baltic, Thracian or Slavic descent. R1a-Z280 outnumbers R1a-M458 among Romanians, the opposite phenomena is typical for Poles, Czechs and Bulgarians. 12% of the Romanians belong to R1b, the Alpino-Italic branch R1b-U152 is at 2% per 330 samples, a lower frequency recorded than other Balkan peoples.[76]

Distribution of Y-DNA Haplogroup I1 in Eurasia and parts of Africa
Distribution of Y-DNA Haplogroup R1a in Europe
Distribution of Y-DNA Haplogroup R1b in Eurasia and parts of Africa
The branches R1b-U106, R1b-DF27 and R1b-L21 make up 1% respectively.[76] The eastern branches R1b-M269* and L23* (Z2103) make up 7% and outnumber the Atlantic branches, they prevail in parts of east, central Europe and as a result of Greek colonisation – in parts of Sicily as well.[76] 8% of the Romanians belong to E1b1b1a1 (E-M78) per 265 samples.[77]
From a group of 178 males from 9 Romanian counties, mainly from Transylvania, most of them belong to the Paleolithic European lineage I2a (17% I2a1b, 2% I2a2, 3% I2*), to R1a (20%) and to E1b1b1a1b (19%).[70] Haplogroup J2 is represented at 16% among them, unlike the structure in the Apennine Peninsula, among Romanians the J2b clade prevails.[70] About 10% of these belong to Haplogroup R1b in all counties. R1b-U152, the specific Alpino-Italic clade, is represented at 3% among them, the prevailing branches are eastern, except for Brașov where Germanic U106 is most frequent. U106 is also prevalent clade of R1b in Buhuși and Piatra Neamț. In Brașov and Dolj I2 prevails, in Cluj – R1a. Another 6% of these belong to I1 and 2% to G2a. T, N, Q are also represented by frequencies of less than a percent.[70]
Despite negligible Roman genetic traits in general, one study[78] of 219 Romanians found strong indications in other parts of Transylvania, in the region corresponding to Roman Dacia. The highest frequency of R1b (31–32%) in Eastern Europe only behind Trebic in the Czech Republic (32.7%) was found in the Romanian counties Arad and Alba, that experienced Celtic settlement, the heaviest and only Roman colonisation with a significant number of colonists from Noricum and West Pannonia, and later German settlement.
The subclade of R1b was not revealed in the case, but no similar high or prevailing frequency of Eastern subclades of R1b has ever been found in Europe. Three of the ten towns that were almost exclusively populated by Roman citizens (Apulum, Ampelum and Potaissa) were in present Alba Iulia county, not far from the Roman capital Sarmizegetusa. Genetic isolate due to migration from unattested migration from the Middle East would not be a plausible historic-geographical event as even the eastern branch of R1b in Europe is different than these in the Middle East. The only ethnic groups with higher frequencies of R1b in the East are the Aromanians due to their main ancestry from the Roman West. In some occasions the U106 branch, which is minimal among Romanians, rises to the prevailing clade in some cities, but still at a low frequency. The high frequency of R1b was found in other places in Transylvania – 25% in Maramureș and Harghita, 20% in Mehedinți, 14% in Bihor, 11% in Vrancea, 0% in Neamț. Excluding Arad and Alba Iulia, Haplogroup I+G was found as most frequent in all, except Maramureș, where Haplogroup J was found to be prevalent.
According to an autosomal analysis of eastern Europeans and adjacent peoples, the group of Bulgarians and Macedonians is located together with Romanians.[73] Most West Slavs, Hungarians, and Austrians tend to share as many identical by-descent segments with South Slavs as with Romanians, Torbeshi and Gagauzes.[73]
Showing the importance of geography, a 2017 paper, concentrating on the mtDNA, signalling how Romania has been "a major crossroads between Asia and Europe" and thus "experienced continuous migration and invasion episodes", while precising that "previous studies" show Romanians "exhibit genetic similarity with other Europeans" or that "another study pointed to possible segregation within the Middle East populations", also mentions how "signals of Asian maternal lineages were observed in all Romanian historical provinces, indicating gene flow along the migration routes through East Asia and Europe, during different time periods, namely, the Upper Paleolithic period and/or, with a likely greater preponderance, the Middle Ages", and concludes that "our current findings based on the mtDNA analysis of populations in historical provinces of Romania suggest similarity between populations in Transylvania and Central Europe," on one hand, as well between Wallachia, Moldavia, and Dobrudja with the Balkans, on the another, "supported both by the observed clines in haplogroup frequencies for several European and Asian maternal lineages and MDS analyses."

Edited by Infinitty, 29 August 2019 - 22:56.

Conform studiilor genetice, românii sunt alcatuiti neuniform pe regiuni separate de Carpati dintr-un amestec de cel putin 5-6 natiuni stravechi in proportii sensibil egale.

Cum se impaca acest fapt cu teza istorica clasica in care românii sunt ba urmasii colonistilor romani, ba un amestec de daci si romani, inca nu imi dau seama.

Ideea centrala este ca suntem un amestec central-oriental european si nu un amestec de colonisti romani care ar fi venit mai ales dinspre apus si zonele meridionale.

In consecinta Fane are dreptate cand spune ca unii sunt vlahi J2, altii sunt traci R1a, fie I2...

Cred ca sunteti singura natiune care nu are un raspuns exact nici dupa 10.000 de pagini pe acest forum.

 Infinitty, on 30 august 2019 - 10:01, said:

Suntem un amestec meridional-central-oriental-boreal european cu influente oriental-central-vestic-limitrof asiatice

Si westpoint este un taximetrist pensionar

Cred ca avem raspunsul, dar istoricii nostri si Academia, nu s-au deranjat sa traduca cateva articole si sa sintetizeze rezultatele romanilor participanti la ancestry project si altele similare.
Practic avem datarea exacta a migratiei haplogrupurilor Y cromozom, plus o analiza completa pe autozomi plus DNA mitocondrial, X cromozom plus Y cromozom haplogrupuri.

 Mount_Yerrmom, on 30 august 2019 - 20:00, said:

Mai ficiorule, asa taximetrist cum am fost eu si sunt acum tu nu ai fost si nu vei fi niciodata.
Sarmanul de tine....

 Infinitty, on 30 august 2019 - 21:44, said:

https://www.digi24.r...genetice-268493

https://www.libertat...socanta-1150597

https://www.edupedu....drial-romanesc/

https://www.vice.com...unt-cu-adevarat

https://www.eupedia...._timeline.shtml

According to self-published data, the Y-DNA haplogroup frequencies of 962 Romanians (and unknown part of Moldovans) are as follows: 28% I2, 18% R1a, 15% R1b, 14% E1b1b, 14% J2, 4% I1, 3% G2a, 2% N1c, 1% J1, 1% T and Q.[71] On the basis of 361 samples, Haplogroup I occurs at 32% in Romanians.[72]

The highest frequency of I2a1 (I-P37) in the Balkans today was present before the Slavic expansion and is owed to indigenous tribes,[73] and is particularly suggested to have been common among the ancient Thracians in Romania.

Haplogroup I2a1 (P37.2)
Haplogroup I2a1 is by far the largest branch of I2 and the one most strongly linked to Neolithic cultures in south-east, south-west and north-west Europe.
Distribution of haplogroup I2a1 (formerly I2a) in Europe

Haplogroup I2a1b-L621
This branch is found overwhelmingly in Slavic countries. Its maximum frequencies are observed among the Dinaric Slavs (Slovenes, Croats, Bosniaks, Serbs, Montenegrins and Macedonians) as well as in Bulgaria, Romania, Moldavia, western Ukraine and Belarus. It is also common to a lower extent in Albania, Greece, Hungary, Slovakia, Poland, and south-western Russia. I2-L621 (L147.2+) is also known as as I2a-Din (for Dinaric).
The high concentration of I2a1b-L621 in north-east Romania, Moldova and central Ukraine reminds of the maximum spread of the Cucuteni-Trypillian culture (4800-3000 BCE). No Y-DNA sample from this culture has been tested to date, but as it evolved as an offshoot from the Starčevo–Kőrös–Criş culture, it is likely that I2a was one of its main paternal lineages, and a founder effect could have increased considerably its frequency. The Cucuteni-Trypillian culture was the most advanced Neolithic culture in Europe before the Indo-European invasions in the Bronze Age and seems to have had intensive contacts with the Steppe culture before the expansion of Yamna to the Balkans and Central Europe (see histories of R1a and R1b). From 3500 BCE, at the onset of the Yamna period in the Pontic-Caspian Steppe, the Cucuteni-Trypillian people started expanding east into the steppe of what is now western Ukraine, leaving their towns (the largest in the world at the time), and adopting an increasingly nomadic lifestyle like their Yamna neighbours. It can easily be imagined that Cucuteni-Trypillian people became assimilated by the Yamna neighbours and that they spread as a minority lineage alongside haplogroups R1a and R1b as they advanced toward the Baltic with the Corded Ware expansion. Alternatively, I2-L621 lineages could have lived in relative isolation from the mainstream Proto-Indo-European society somewhere around Ukraine, Poland or Belarus, then as the centuries and millennia passed, would have blended with the predominantly R1a populations around them. The resulting amalgam would have become the ancestors of the Proto-Slavs.
Nowadays, I2a1 is five to ten times more common than G2a in Southeast Europe, while during the Neolithic period G2a was approximately four times more common. What can explain this complete reversal? At one point in history, I2a1 lineages seem to have benefited from being on the winning side. Apart from a minor boost from (hypothetically) joining Yamna's westward expansion to Europe, the principal determining event that allowed I2a1b-L621 to become a major Eastern European lineage was probably the Slavic migrations from the 6th to the 9th century CE. Most modern Eastern Europeans belonging to I2a1b fit into the L147.2 (aka CTS10228, CTS2180 or Y3111) subclade, which is thought to have arisen 5,600 years ago (just before the Yamna period and the Trypillian expansion into the steppe), but has a TMRCA of only 2,300 years according to Yfull. The minority of I2a1b-L621 individuals negative for L147.2 are all found around eastern Poland, Belarus and western Ukraine, suggesting that this is where this lineage survived since the Chalcolithic. The I2a1b-L147.2 subclade seems to have expanded very fast from 1900 years ago, which is concordant with the timing of the Slavic ethnogenesis, considering that it takes a few centuries before one man can have enough male descendants to start having an impact at the scale of a population. This I2-L147.2 ancestor would have such an impact on the burgeoning Early Slavic population, still small 2,300 years ago, but booming.
After the Germanic tribes living in eastern Germany and Poland, like the Goths, the Vandals and the Burgundians, invaded the Roman Empire, the Slavs living further east filled the vacuum. Following the collapse of the Western Roman Empire in 476, the Slavs moved in the Dinaric Alps and the Balkans. By the 9th century, the Slavs occupied all modern Slavic-speaking territories, apart from the eastern Balkans under the control of the Turkic-speaking Bulgars.
Nowadays northern Slavic countries have between 9% (Poland, Czech republic) and 21% (Ukraine) of I2a-L621, while southern Slavs have between 20% (Bulgaria) and 50% (Bosnia). The higher percentage of I2a-Din in the south is probably just due to another founder effect due to the fact that the South Slavs originated in western Ukraine, where the ratio of I2a to R1a was higher. Virtually all Dinaric I2a falls under the L147.2 branch, and the majority to the S17250 ramification, who descend from a common patrilinear ancestor who lived only 1,800 years ago.




According to 335 sampled Romanians, 15% of them belong to R1a.[75] Haplogroup R1a among Romanians is entirely from the Eastern European variety Z282 and may be a result of Baltic, Thracian or Slavic descent. R1a-Z280 outnumbers R1a-M458 among Romanians, the opposite phenomena is typical for Poles, Czechs and Bulgarians.


SLAVI si protoslavi.






12% of the Romanians belong to R1b, the Alpino-Italic branch R1b-U152 is at 2% per 330 samples, a lower frequency recorded than other Balkan peoples.[76]

The branches R1b-U106, R1b-DF27 and R1b-L21 make up 1% respectively.[76]

The eastern branches R1b-M269* and L23* (Z2103) make up 7% and outnumber the Atlantic branches, they prevail in parts of east, central Europe and as a result of Greek colonisation – in parts of Sicily as well.

The Balkanic and Asian branch (Z2103)
Asian branch
Haak et al. (2015) tested six Y-DNA samples from the eastern reaches of Yamna culture, in the Volga-Ural region, and all of them turned out to belong to haplogroup R1b. Four of them were positive for the Z2103 mutation. IN all likelihood, R1b-Z2103 was a major lineage of the Poltavka culture, which succeeded to the Yamna culture between the Volga River and the Ural mountains. It eventually merged with the Abashevo culture (presumably belonging chiefly to R1a-Z93) to form the Sintashta culture. Through a founder effect or through political domination, R1a-Z93 lineages would have outnumbered R1b-Z2103 after the expansion to Central and South Asia, although important pockets of Z2103 survived, notably in Bashkorostan, Turkmenistan and Uyghurstan (Chinese Turkestan).
R1b-Z2103 would have become an Indo-Iranian lineage like R1a-Z93. This is true of two Z2103 subclades in particular: L277.1 and L584. The former is found in Russia to Central Asia then to India and the Middle East, just like the R1a-L657 subclade of Z93. It can be associated with the Andronovo culture and Bactria–Margiana Archaeological Complex, as well as the Indo-Aryan migrations. R1b-L584 is found especially in Iran, northern Iraq, the South Caucasus and Turkey, and correlates more with the Iranian branch of Indo-Europeans, which includes Persians, Kurds and Scythians.

Distribution of haplogroup R1b-ht35 (Z2103) in Europe
Distribution of haplogroup R1b-ht35 (L23, L11, L51 & Z2103) in Europe
Anatolian branch
The Hittites (c. 2000-1178 BCE) were the first Indo-Europeans to defy (and defeat) the mighty Mesopotamian and Egyptian empires. There are two hypotheses regarding the origins of the Hittites. The first is that they came from the eastern Balkans and invaded Anatolia by crossing the Bosphorus. That would mean that they belonged either to the L23* or the Z2103 subclade. The other plausible scenario is that they were an offshoot of the late Maykop culture, and that they crossed the Caucasus to conquer the Hattian kingdom (perhaps after being displaced from the North Caucasus by the R1a people of the Catacomb culture). In that case the Hittites might have belonged to the R1b-Z2103 or the R1b-PF7562 subclade. The first hypothesis has the advantage of having a single nucleus, the Balkans, as the post-Yamna expansion of all Indo-European R1b. The Maykop hypothesis, on the other hand, would explain why the Anatolian branch of IE languages (Hittite, Luwian, Lydian, Palaic) is so archaic compared to other Indo-European languages, which would have originated in Yamna rather than Maykop.
There is substantial archaeological and linguistic evidence that Troy was an Indo-European city associated with the Steppe culture and haplogroup R1b. The Trojans were Luwian speakers related to the Hittites (hence Indo-European), with attested cultural ties to the culture of the Pontic-Caspian Steppe. The first city of Troy dates back to 3000 BCE, right in the middle of the Maykop period. Troy might have been founded by Maykop people as a colony securing the trade routes between the Black Sea and the Aegean. The founding of Troy happens to coincide exactly with the time the first galleys were made. Considering the early foundation of Troy, the most likely of the two Indo-European paternal haplogroups would be R1b-M269 or L23.
The Phrygians and the Proto-Armenians are two other Indo-European tribes stemming from the Balkans. Both appear to have migrated to Anatolia around 1200 BCE, during the 'great upheavals' of the Eastern Mediterranean (see below). The Phrygians (or Bryges) founded a kingdom (1200-700 BCE) in west central Anatolia, taking over most of the crumbling Hittite Empire. The Armenians crossed all Anatolia until Lake Van and settled in the Armenian Highlands. Nowadays 30% of Armenian belong to haplogroup R1b, the vast majority to the L584 subclade of Z2103 (=> see The Indo-European migrations to Armenia).
Most of the R1b found in Greece today is of the Balkanic Z2103 variety. There is also a minority of Proto-Celtic S116/P312 and of Italic/Alpine Celtic S28/U152. Z2103 could have descended from Albania or Macedonia during the Dorian invasion (see below), thought to have happened in the 12th century BCE. Their language appear to have been close enough to Mycenaean Greek to be mutually intelligible and easy for locals to adopt. The Mycenaeans might have brought some R1b (probably also Z2103) to Greece, but their origins can be traced back through archaeology to the Catacomb culture and the Seima-Turbino phenomenon of the northern forest-steppe, which would make them primarily an R1a tribe.
Greek and Anatolian S116 and some S28 lineages could be attributed to the La Tène Celtic invasions of the 3rd century BCE. The Romans also certainly brought S28 lineages (=> see Genetics of the Italian people), and probably also the Venetians later on, notably on the islands. Older clades of R1b, such as P25 and V88, are only a small minority and would have come along E1b1b, G2a and J2 from the Middle East.




8% of the Romanians belong to E1b1b1a1 (E-M78) per 265 samples.

In fact, it has been calculated that E-V13 emerged from E-M78 some 7,800 years ago, when Neolithic farmers were advancing into the Balkans and the Danubian basin. Furthermore, all the modern members of E-V13 descend from a common ancestor who lived approximately 5,500 years ago, and all of them also descend from a later common ancestor who carried the CTS5856 mutation.

Red Sea origins & Neolithic expansion
Haplogroup E1b1b (formerly known as E3b) represents the last major direct migration from Africa into Europe. It is believed to have first appeared in the Horn of Africa approximately 26,000 years ago and dispersed to North Africa and the Near East during the late Paleolithic and Mesolithic periods. E-M78 and E-Z827 originated respectively at 20,000 years and 24,000 years. E1b1b lineages are closely linked to the diffusion of Afroasiatic languages.
Lazaridis et al. (2016) tested the first ancient DNA samples from the Mesolithic Natufian culture in Israel, possibly the world's oldest sedentary community, and found that the male individuals belonged either to haplogroups CT or E1b1 (including two E1b1b1b2 samples). These are to date the oldest known E1b1b individuals. The same haplogroups show up in Pre-Pottery Neolithic B Jordan, accompanied by new haplogroups (H2 and T). Besides, E1b1b was not found in Neolithic Iran or Anatolia, and only showed up twice among the hundreds of Neolithic European samples that have been tested. This evidence suggests that at the end of the last glaciation 12,000 years ago, E1b1b men were present in the Levant, but not in other parts of the Near East. There is evidence that the Natufians already cultivated cereals like rye before the Neolithic period. Cereal farming may therefore trace its roots (literally) to the E1b1b tribes of the Mesolithic Levant.
Marieke van de Loosdrecht et al. (2018) tested the DNA of seven 15,000-year-old modern humans from Taforalt Cave in northeastern Morocco, and all of the six males belonged to haplogroup E-M78. Autosomally they could be modelled as 2/3 Natufian and 1/3 Sub-Saharan African (West African), confirming the close genetic link between Late Paleolithic North Africans and Mesolithic South Levantines.
Nowadays, the highest genetic diversity of haplogroup E1b1b is observed in Northeast Africa, especially in Ethiopia and Somalia, which also have the monopoly of older and rarer branches like M281, V6 or V92. This suggests that E1b1b may indeed have appeared in East Africa, then expanded north until the Levant. Nevertheless, many lineages now found among the Ethiopians and Somalians appear to have come from the Fertile Crescent during the Neolithic period. This includes some E1b1b subclades like V22 (12,000 years old) and V32 (10,000 years old), but also undeniably Near Eastern lineages like T1a-CTS2214 and J1-L136.
North African Neolithic cattle herder hypothesis
Decker et al (2013) reported that Iberian and Italian cattle possess introgression from African taurine, which could imply that cattle were not just domesticated in West Asia, but also independently in North Africa. If that is the case, E-M78 or E-M123 could have come to southern Europe through North African cattle herders during the Neolithic, although this hypothesis remains purely conjectural. See also : Southern Neolithic route brought Megaliths from the Levant to Western Europe.





Haplogroup J2 is represented at 16% among them, unlike the structure in the Apennine Peninsula, among Romanians the J2b clade prevails.

J2b1-M205 is found especially in the western Balkans, Cyprus, the Levant, the South Caucasus and Iran.
J2b2-M241 is found mostly in south-east, central and Eastern Europe and in India.

J2b1: West Asian Copper & Bronze Age
Today J2b1 is most common in the western Balkans (Serbia, Bosnia, Croatia) and Cyprus. It is also found in above 1% of the population in parts of southern Italy (Calabria, Apulia), the Peloponnese in Greece, Lebanon, Jordan, eastern Turkey, Armenia and Iran. The oldest samples recovered so far were from Early Bronze Age Jordan (c. 2400 BCE, Lazaridis et al. (2016)) and Late Bronze Age Lebanon (Canaanite burial from Sidon, Haber et al. (2017)). It was also found in an Egyptian mummy (c. 660 BCE, Schuenemann et al. (2017)).
J2b1's origins remain unclear, but it probably originated in the South Caucasus and/or Iran and might have spread to the Levant, Cyprus and Greece with the Kura-Araxes culture during the Bronze Age. The branch found in the western Balkans (Y22069) is distinct from the East Mediterranean and Caucasian branch. It seems to have formed 6,000 years ago, but its TMRCA is very young at 900 years before present, suggesting a medieval founder effect.

J2b2-L283: from Neolithic Iran to the Indo-Europeans
J2b has a quite different distribution from J2a. At first sight, the modern distribution of J2b seems to have a stronger association with the Neolithic and Chalcolithic cultures of Southeast Europe. Yet, at present, J2b has never been found in Neolithic, Chalcolithic, nor even Bronze Age Europe, nor in the Fertile Crescent during the Neolithic or Chalcolithic. J2b is also absent from western and central Anatolia, but is present in eastern Anatolia and western Iran, as well as in the Volga-Ural region, notably among the Mordvins, Chuvashs and Tatars. The oldest known J2b sample comes from the Pre-Pottery Neolithic site of Tepe Abdul Hosein in western Iran, dating from approximately 10,000 years ago. This is the strongest evidence that J2b actually originated in the mountains of the Zagros or the Caucasus, rather than in the plains of the Fertile Crescent.
The vast majority of J2b lineages belong to J2b2 and its subclades. While J2b* and J2b1 lineages are mostly restricted to the Caucasus, eastern Anatolia and the Balkans, J2b2 is found throughout Europe, in the Pontic-Caspian Steppe, in Central Asia and in South Asia, particularly in India. Although J2b2 itself was formed 14,000 years ago, almost all European J2b2 members belong to the L283 branch and share a common patrilineal ancestor who lived 6,000 years ago. What's more, 99% of them fall under the Z628 (aka Z597) clade, with a shared common ancestor who lived only 4,500 years ago. This Z628 clade is also found in India, Armenia and the Levant, among others.
The most likely hypothesis is that J2b2a1 (L283) penetrated into the Pontic Steppe region during the Neolithic or Chalcolithic period, by crossing the Caucasus from western Iran, then migrated to the Volga-Ural region, where it was absorbed by the R1a-Z93 tribes in the Early Bronze Age. As a minor lineage within the R1a-Z93 dominant populations, it would have expanded from the Volga-Ural region to Central and South Asia with the Indo-Aryan invasions approximately from 4,300 to 3,500 years ago. Other J2b lineages could have ended up in the Balkans during a number of Steppe invasions from the Bronze Age until the Middle Ages.
Another conceivable possibility is that a minority of J2b2-L283 accompanied R1b-M269 from the Caucasus region and migrated to the Volga-Ural region in the early Bronze Age, propagating with them the Proto-Indo-European language and bronze technology to the Caspian steppe before the expansion of this new culture to Central and South Asia. The drawback of this hypothesis is that it doesn't explain why R1b lineages strongly outnumber J2b2 in Europe but not in South Asia.
The oldest J2b2-L283 sample recovered among ancient DNA samples is a Late Bronze Age (1700-1500 BCE) individual from southern Croatia (Mathieson et al. 2017). His genome possessed about 30% of Steppe admixture and 15% of Eastern Hunter-Gatherer, which suggest a recent arrival from the Steppe. He was accompanied by a woman with similar admixtures, and both possessed typical Pontic-Caspian Steppe mtDNA (I1a1 and W3a). The timing, location and admixtures of these samples fit with the Illyrian colonisation of the Dinaric Alps, which is thought to have taken place between 1600 and 1100 BCE. The Illyrians may have been late Steppe migrants from the Volga region that were forced out of the Steppe by the invasion of the northern R1a tribes who established the Srubna culture (from 2000 BCE). Through a founding effect, J2b2-L283 lineages might have considerably increased their original frequency after reaching Illyria.
Both J2b1 and J2b2-L283 are also found at high frequency in Greece and in regions that used to be part of the ancient Greek world (Ionia, Magna Graecia). However they are almost absent from Crete (where J2a1 lineages are dominant). J2b was also not found among Neolithic Anatolian or European farmers, and is absent from central Anatolia. This suggests that J2b was not associated with the Neolithic Greeks nor with the Minoan civilisation, but may well have come to Greece with the Mycenaeans, who also appear to have been pushed out of the Steppe by the advance of the Srubna culture. As a result, both the Illyrians and the Mycenaeans (and possibly the Albanians) would be descended from Middle to Late Bronze Age Steppe migrants to the Southeast Europe, in a migration that was particularly rich in J2b lineages from the Middle Volga region. That would explain why it has been so hard to identify R1a or R1b lineages that could be of Illyrian or Mycenaean origin. The only variety of R1b that is found at reasonably high frequencies in Southeast Europe, and particularly in Greece, is R1b-Z2103, the branch found in the eastern Yamna culture, including the Volga-Ural region.

J2b2-Z2432: West Asian Neolithic expansion to South Asia
The other main J2b2 subclade is Z2432, which split from L283 some 10,000 years ago, during the Early Neolithic. This branch is found almost exclusively in South Asia today, apart from a few reported samples from the Middle East (Syria, Iraq, Arabian peninsula, Egypt). In all likelihood it represents the descendants of Iranian Neolithic farmers toward the Indian subcontinent, although it can't be ruled out at present that some clades migrated later from Iran, during the Chalcolithic period or the Bronze Age.

Iata originea românilor:

According to self-published data, the Y-DNA haplogroup frequencies of 962 Romanians (and unknown part of Moldovans) are as follows: 28% I2, 18% R1a, 15% R1b, 14% E1b1b, 14% J2, 4% I1, 3% G2a, 2% N1c, 1% J1, 1% T and Q.[71] On the basis of 361 samples, Haplogroup I occurs at 32% in Romanians.

Genetic suntem formati din mai multe etnii preistorice.

Fondul de baza al poporului român este populatia paleolitica indigena I2 cu un procentaj intre 30 si 40%.

Este posibil ca acesti indigeni sa fi dat si identitatea noastra de limba.

Urmatoarea componenta sunt nomazii geto-daci R1b cca. 15% plus cca. 5% R1a, restul R1a sunt slavi asimilati, ori alte populatii proto-slave ori precursoare a slavilor.

Pana acum am avea un total proto-românesc de cca. 60%.

14% E1b1b - provine din balcanii de sud (Serbia-Albania-Bulgaria-Grecia) si probabil este legat de I2 indigen inca din neolitic, deci avem un 74%.


14% J2 - din care cel putin 5% este indigen legat de E si de I2 indigen.

Asadar in concluzie avem peste 90% gene balcanice foarte vechi unde un popor paleolitic probabil a asimilat pe la 60% alte grupuri mai mici dar si ele destul de vechi, plus elemente asimilate direct ori indirect de cca. 1% fiecare (T, G, K, ...).

Restul de cca. 10-20% sunt populatii venite aici din apus, din zona otomana, arealul slav, imperiul roman, India, samd.



Genele nu atesta nicaieri un nucleu etnolingvistic roman-imperial si nici vreo legatura cu vestul european, cu germanicii, cu Italia si nici macar cu slavii decat partial.

Unificarea etno-lingvistica trebuie sa se fi realizat in timpul Culturii Cucuteni, a Culturii lineare cca. 4400-3500 BC, pana atunci existau mai multe culturi probabil cu o etnicitate proprie.

Edited by Infinitty, 31 August 2019 - 22:49.

 WestPoint, on 30 august 2019 - 21:54, said:

Ca-n filme?
 Screenshot_9.jpg   12.37K   5 downloads

Uite aici analiza ADN din care rezultă originea poporului maghiar :

https://cersipamantr...j41G2N3TVwrAiiM