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Originea românilor

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#13393
Ramunc

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View Posttihomir, on Dec 8 2007, 22:18, said:

Nu, mult mai putini.

60-70.000 din populatia jud. Bacau si Neamt vorbesc dialectele ceangaiesti.



Ulterior, s-au repliat spre o estimare de 60-70.000 de „ceangăi” din Moldova, referindu-se la catolicii bilingvi, care folosesc și graiul românesc ardelenesc și  graiul ceangău. Din nefericire, aceste cifre au fost preluate și de către raportorii Consiliului Europei, care nu au observat că în localitățile cu populație bilingvă statisticile consemnează, ca și în satele catolice care folosesc numai limba română,  procentaje de peste 95% cetățeni care se declară români.


http://asrocatolic.lx.ro/despre.html

Edited by Ramunc, 08 December 2007 - 22:26.


#13394
X2theZ

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View Poststefanmm, on Dec 8 2007, 22:12, said:

daca esti mandru cu nationalitatea ta de rom^n important este sa depui si efortul
necesar de a respecta aceasta onoare.


Prin minciuna, ignoranta si falsificare nu vei onora niciodata numele de rom^n.

ce minciuna ba baiatule esti bolnav cu capul



View Poststefanmm, on Dec 8 2007, 22:12, said:

Inainte de formarea regatului Rom^nia a existat pentru o scurta perioada
de timp Principatele Unite ale Munteniei si Moldovei sub domnia lui Cuza. Inainte de 1859
au existat doua state: Moldova si Valahia.

In 1521 in scrisoarea negustorului Neacsu din Campulung apare prima oara
pomenita in limba rom^na "Tara Rum^neasca".

Falsificatorii de istorie rom^neasca trag concluzia ca intotdeauna Valahia s-a
numit Tara Rum^neasca ori Rum^nia, ceea ce este fals. 1521 este momentul
in care prima oara Tara Rum^neasca este pomenita.

Oare de ce?
Ce semnificatie are aceasta denumire?
Ce inseamna aceasta identitate conferita de denumirea Tara Rum^neasca?

Nationalistii sovini mincinosi si falsificatori automat folosesc acest document ca sa
demonstreze continuitatea in constiinta populatiei norddunarene a identitatii daco-romane.
Pe aceeasi logica oricine se intreaba: de ce francezii nu-si spun romani, de ce italienii
nu-si spun romani, de ce spaniolii ori portughezii nu-si spun romani?

tu macar stii ce inseamna valah? valah e sinonim cu roman numai ca e tradus in germana

"Vlach or Valah is itself an interesting word. It's a derivative from the same Germanic word cognate to welsch in German and Welsh in English, both meaning Roman, whether the Romans be Latin-speaking or Celtic-speaking. Vlach itself is Slavic (taking that form in Czech) and could mean Italian or Romanian, though the same word, with appropriate case endings, turns up in mediaeval Latin (Blachi) and Greek (Blakhoi, pronounced Vlakhi), only applied to the Romance speakers of the Balkans. It also occurs in Polish as Wloch, in Hungarian as Olasz, in Russian as Volokh, in Yiddish as Walach, and in various other forms even in those same languages (cf. "Vlach," A Dictionary of Surnames, Patrick Hanks and Flavia Hodges [Oxford University Press, 1988], p. 558). Vlach also significantly turns up in the name of the first Romanian principality: Wallachia (or sometimes "Walachia"). Thus, we can imagine the word being left behind in the Balkan Sprachbund by the German tribes during their stay in Eastern Europe and the Balkans."

http://www.friesian.com/decdenc2.htm

denumirea de vlah o aveau romanii chiar de la prima lor mentiune in secolul 13

The first unmistakable reference to Northern Rumanians in the
Carpathian Basin is to be found at the beginning of the 13th century;
among the armies sent by Joachim - the overlord of Nagyszeben
(Sibiu) - to liberate Vidin, Rumanians (Olahs) are noted along with
Saxons, Szeklers and Petchenegs. This event occurred between
1208 - 13; probably in 1208. Only much later do references appear
pertaining to the origin of Northern Rumanians inhabiting the territory
of the former Dacia.
Poggio Bracciolini, Florentine humanist (1380 - 1459) makes first
mention of this topic in a work he wrote in 1451. According to him, in
the western part of Eastern Europe (apud superiores Sarmatas) live
the descendants of Emperor Trajan's settlers, who retained a great
deal of the original Latin language. Among others, they used the
Latin words oculus (Rum. ochi ŽeyeŽ), digitus (Rum. deget ŽfingerŽ),
manus (Rum. mîn? ŽhandŽ), panis (Rum. pîine ŽbreadŽ). Poggio
Bracciolini bases these observations on hearsay. In those days Sarmatians were
mentioned only in relation to areas east of the Carpathians and of the
Vistula river. In all likelihood, it was a mercantile center along the
Black Sea, which spread word about a language - similar to Italian -
being spoken by Rumanians. When this news reached
Italy, local scholars well-versed in the history of Rome inferred a
connection with the Dacian conquest of Trajan and specifically with
the Romans who were resettled North of the Danube. Nevertheless,
our author makes no mention of Dacia. From the end of the 14th
century on.
If not Dacia itself, but Dacians are recognized by Flavio Biondo,
noted secretary and scholar of the Clerical State (1392 - 1463). After
the fall of Constantinople in 1453 he writes about Dacians or Valachs
(Ripenses Daci sive Valachi) who are of Roman descent. In some of
his letters he writes about "Ulachos of Roman Blood" .
It is noteworthy that Flavio Biondo uses the designation Ulach for the Rumanians (Vlachs), whose sound
pattern resembles their Hungarian name (oláh). Even though
Biondo knows of the Rumanian descent of János Hunyadi, he is
familiar primarily with Rumanians South of the Danube and in
Wallachia.
Northern Rumanians - as remnants of Trajan's Dacian settlers -
first appear in concrete form in the writings of Aeneas Sylvius
Piccolomini (1405 - 1464) who will become known as Pope Pius II
(1458 -1464). This noted author of many scholarly works has a clear
view of Rumanians north of the Danube who are supposedly
descendants of Roman soldiers, sent to fight against the Dacians.
The Roman legions were to have been commanded by a military
leader named Flaccus (Pomponius Flaccus in Latin), Governor of
Moesia.According to Aeneas Sylvius, Rumanians speak
a notably flawed Latin - Italians can barely understand it. This
intellectual exercise - along with Ovidius' story about Chief Flaccus -
took on a life of its own in the historiography of the origin of the
Rumanians.
Subsequent to such prolegomena Antonio Bonfini attributes a
level of scientific study to his essay pertaining to Rumanians' descent
from Roman settlers in Dacia, i.e. from the legionnaires of Trajan.
Bonfini (1427? - 1502) lived in Hungary from 1486 on; he had, in
contrast to his compatriot Italian Humanists, local knowledge. He
was familiar not only with Italian literature on the subject, but also with
Latin inscriptions and ruins from Roman times in Hungary. Yet, the
only - albeit incessantly repeated - proof of Rumanians' Roman origin
is their language and, incidentally and implicitly, their habitation in the
place where Dacians and Getas once lived. He has various
explanations as to why these Roman - Rumanians are called Valachs.
Bonfini disputes Aeneas Sylvius' theory that they were named after
Flaccus. He links the origin of their name to their skill in archery
(Greek ballo means Žto throw, to shootŽ) but it is also possible that
their name is a flawed version (due to the poor pronunciation of
Dalmatians) of Valeria, a province named after Diocletian's daughter.
These are the explanations of a scholar of his times (and also that of
subsequent historians of the 18th century.) The contemporary reader
wonders whether Bonfini has ever seen anything of Dacia. It is here
that this former Roman province became linked to the Rumanians,
and in his text one may also find the seeds of the theory of Dacian7
Rumanian continuity. Bonfini also showed interest in the genealogy
of Mathias Hunyadi (King of Hungary 1458 - 90); he explored the
background of the Corvin lineage: the Roman patrician Corvinafamily,
the ancestors of the Hunyadis. The Rumanian origin of King
Mathias played a significant part in the interest generated in the
Roman roots of Rumanians. This was already evident in the case of
his father, János (John) Hunyadi (seen in the writings of Pietro
Ransano, among others). Descriptions of the Rumanians' Roman
origin and of Trajan's settlements by Ransano and in the popular
works of Aeneas Sylvius became their scholastic legacy; future
historians of the 16th and 17th centuries used this data as their major
source, whether they were Hungarians, Transylvanian Saxons or
other Europeans. As time goes by the Chieftain Flaccus is omitted as
the source of the name: Vlach for Rumanians, but for a long time the
view is prevalent that Rumanians are in reality Italians. In part, the
reason for this view has to do with Italian scholars' belief that
Rumanian is a "half-Italian" or "flawed Italian" language. Another
reason: Poles used a similar name for Italians and Rumanians. The
first reference to this factor can be found in the writings of G.
Pomponio Leto (1425-1498). He was traveling in Eastern Europe,
including Poland, around 1480. Leto states: "Dacia is a province
extending in both directions beyond the Hister (Danube) which, in our
day, was called Volochia and their inhabitants, Volochs. Volochia is
Italy, since the Dacians (Rumanians) speak Italian.

A. Marcu: Riflessi di storia rumena in opere italiane dei secoli XIV. e XV.
Ephemeris Dacoromana I



In the Polish language Italians were called Wloch, Rumanians
were called Woloch. The combination of these two designations creates the image that
Rumanians are of Italian origin and that they speak some kind of
Italian. We can read in the biography of Zbigniew Olegnicki, Bishop
of Crakow (Written by Filippo Buonaccorsi Callimaco (1438-1496)
who lived in the court of the Jagellos) that Poles considered
Rumanians to be Italians (Italos) and called them by the same name
(Italiae indigenas).


Laonici Chalcocondylae Historiarum demonstrationes. Scriptores
Byzantini II








taci draq ca te faci de ras, si ma faci sa-ti zic cuvantu ala cu b si or !!!!!

Edited by X2theZ, 08 December 2007 - 23:21.


#13395
tihomir

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ce minciuna ba baiatule esti bolnav cu capul


Da e bolnav dar si tu ai venit cu o minciuna, cum ca tara se numeste România doar din 1940.

#13396
X2theZ

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View Posttihomir, on Dec 8 2007, 23:31, said:

Da e bolnav dar si tu ai venit cu o minciuna, cum ca tara se numeste România doar din 1940.

daca e ca mine iti dai doua palme?

#13397
tihomir

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daca e ca mine iti dai doua palme?

Ti-am aratat primul articol al Constitutiei din 1866, esti analfabet cumva?

#13398
X2theZ

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View Posttihomir, on Dec 8 2007, 23:37, said:

Ti-am aratat primul articol al Constitutiei din 1866, esti analfabet cumva?

si asta inseamna ca nu a putut fi adaptat acel nume din Rumania in Romania ?

Edited by X2theZ, 08 December 2007 - 23:43.


#13399
tihomir

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si asta inseamna ca nu a putut fi adaptat acel nume din Rumania in Romania ?

Amice esti caraghios pana la urma. Ai zis ca inainte de 1940 tara noastra se numea oficial Rumania. Niciodata nu s-a numit oficial asa, ci Romania, inca din 1861. Care nume sa fie adaptat? Da se folosea si termenul "ruman" sau "rumania" de catre tarani analfabeti sau de catre straini (care au ramas la denumirea din evul mediu a taranimii aservite) , dar asta e cu totul altceva decat ce baltaresti tu.

#13400
ego_zenovius

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View Poststefanmm, on Dec 8 2007, 19:48, said:

caracterul pur rom^nesc al populatiei Romaniei este alterat masiv.
Relatam ca in niste studii a Scolii Sociologice de la BUcuresti (Gusti) din perioada interbelica
niste cercetatori au gasit o comunitate de uzi (mai multe sate) in zona Bicazului.

Zenovius si altii au facut misto de mine.
fane, uite, nu mai fac misto de tine:
pot sa cred ca in "reteta" poporului roman intra si cateva grame de uzi, asta pot sa accept. dar, ca echipele lui gusti gaseau in perioada interbelica sate de uzi in zona bicazului, asta e prea mult pentru mine. nu ai dat niciodata vreo referinta cat de cat clara despre aceste studii, vrei probabil sa te credem pe cuvant.

#13401
X2theZ

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View Posttihomir, on Dec 8 2007, 23:47, said:

Amice esti caraghios pana la urma. Ai zis ca inainte de 1940 tara noastra se numea oficial Rumania. Niciodata nu s-a numit oficial asa, ci Romania, inca din 1861. Care nume sa fie adaptat? Da se folosea si termenul "ruman" sau "rumania" de catre tarani analfabeti sau de catre straini (care au ramas la denumirea din evul mediu a taranimii aservite) , dar asta e cu totul altceva decat ce baltaresti tu.

http://www.yale.edu/...wii/rumania.htm

http://www.newadvent...then/13224b.htm

http://www.time.com/...,969135,00.html



Feb 1966                   Spelling officially changed from Rumania to Romania.

http://www.worldstat...org/Romania.htm



astept scuzele.....

Edited by X2theZ, 09 December 2007 - 00:10.


#13402
tihomir

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ca echipele lui gusti gaseau in perioada interbelica sate de uzi in zona bicazului, asta e prea mult pentru mine.

Dupa cateva zile de ploi torentiale in zona Bicazului au existat mai multe sate de uzi pana la piele. :deadtongue:

#13403
stefanmm

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View Postego_zenovius, on Dec 9 2007, 01:01, said:

dar, ca echipele lui gusti gaseau in perioada interbelica sate de uzi in zona bicazului, asta e prea mult pentru mine.
asta e problema ta.
Nu faci fata la anumite realitati.

Eu vorbeam de o comunitate de uzi.
Satele de munte (de fapt subcarpatine) rom^nesti sunt mici, rasfirate.

#13404
X2theZ

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View Poststefanmm, on Dec 9 2007, 00:09, said:

asta e problema ta.
Nu faci fata la anumite realitati.

Eu vorbeam de o comunitate de uzi.
Satele de munte (de fapt subcarpatine) rom^nesti sunt mici, rasfirate.


cu mine gata nu mai vorbesti? contesti cumva citatele aratate de mine sau autenticitatea acestora?

#13405
tihomir

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Feb 1966 Spelling officially changed from Rumania to Romania.

Poate in limba engleza, asa cum si la noi denumirea oficiala a unor tari s-a modificat pentru a fi in concordanta cu denumirea corecta.
Tu chiar nu ai vazut in viata ta o moneda romaneasca mai veche de 1940, sa vezi acolo "Romania" sau "regele Romanilor"? Ce naiba ma trebuie sa citeti de pe un site in engleza sa stii in ce tara traiesti?  :lol:

Quote

Eu vorbeam de o comunitate de uzi.

Tu si mai cine?

Edited by tihomir, 09 December 2007 - 00:12.


#13406
X2theZ

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View Posttihomir, on Dec 9 2007, 00:11, said:

Poate in limba engleza, asa cum si la noi denumirea oficiala a unor tari s-a modificat pentru a fi in concordanta cu denumirea corecta.
Tu chiar nu ai vazut in viata ta o moneda romaneasca mai veche de 1940, sa vezi acolo "Romania" sau "regele Romanilor"? Ce naiba ma trebuie sa citeti de pe un site in engleza sa stii in ce tara traiesti?  :lol:



Tu si mai cine?


daca aia ar fi fost singura sursa care sa ateste asta poate n-as fi crezut dar am auzit de la mai multe persoane ca OFICIAL Romania s-ar fi numit Rumania inainte si ca Ceausescu a schimbat denumirea in Romania.

Edited by X2theZ, 09 December 2007 - 00:15.


#13407
tihomir

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daca aia ar fi fost singura sursa care sa ateste asta poate n-as fi crezut dar am auzit de la mai multe persoane ca OFICIAL Romania s-ar fi numit Rumania inainte si ca Ceausescu a schimbat denumirea in Romania.

Hai ma fi serios.

#13408
Ramunc

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View PostX2theZ, on Dec 9 2007, 00:07, said:

http://www.yale.edu/...wii/rumania.htm

http://www.newadvent...then/13224b.htm

http://www.time.com/...,969135,00.html



Feb 1966                   Spelling officially changed from Rumania to Romania.

http://www.worldstat...org/Romania.htm



astept scuzele.....


The Rumanian state since then always promote the spelling with "o"

http://www.orbilat.c...s_Romanian.html



Realitatea e ca forma Rumânia nu a fost utilizata decât de straini. Iata o felicitare româneasca de pe la 1900:
[ http://www.tkinter.smig.net/Romania/Gallery/images/Hora.jpg - Pentru incarcare in pagina (embed) Click aici ]

Edited by Ramunc, 09 December 2007 - 00:22.


#13409
ego_zenovius

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View PostX2theZ, on Dec 9 2007, 01:14, said:

daca aia ar fi fost singura sursa care sa ateste asta poate n-as fi crezut dar am auzit de la mai multe persoane ca OFICIAL Romania s-ar fi numit Rumania inainte si ca Ceausescu a schimbat denumirea in Romania.
pai ziceai ca denumirea tarii a devenit "romania" in 1940! acum ne spui ca, de fapt ceausescu i-a zis prima data "romania". ceva, ceva, ai aflat tu, dar le incurci. pe vremea lui ceausescu s-a schimbat denumirea din "republica populara romana" in "republica socialista romania". in 68, daca-mi aduc bine aminte.

#13410
X2theZ

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View PostRamunc, on Dec 9 2007, 00:19, said:

The Rumanian state since then always promote the spelling with "o"

http://www.orbilat.c...s_Romanian.html



Realitatea e ca forma Rumânia nu a fost utilizata decât de straini. Iata o felicitare româneasca de pe la 1900:
[ http://www.tkinter.smig.net/Romania/Gallery/images/Hora.jpg - Pentru incarcare in pagina (embed) Click aici ]


ok inseamna ca m-am inselelat...mea culpa, dar n-ar fi exclus ca Romania sa fi fost termenul folosit de romani iar in acte sa fi fost trecut numele Rumania ...dar in fine s-o lasam balta  :rolleyes:

Edited by X2theZ, 09 December 2007 - 00:26.


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