Forumul SoftpediaBursa auto / moto / veloAnunƣuri imobiliareAnunƣuriOferte de serviciiLocuri de muncă Ɵi cursuri de specializareBloguriJocuriTeste / ReviewsÎntrebări Ɵi răspunsuriChestionareFotoStatistici

Bine ai venit ( Autentificare | Înregistrare )

 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> OHV, OHC, Valvetronic, VTEC, TFSI si alte chestii de genul acesta, Sufletul masinii e motorul. Hai sa stim mai multe despre el.
akajohn
mesaj 30th January 2008, 17:23
Mesaj #1


Active Member

Grup: Senior Members
Mesaje: 2 373
Data înscrierii: 15-July 04
Locație: ici si colo
ID membru: 19 992





Cum discutia despre premiile obtinute de BMW degenerase clar intr-una OHV vs. OHC si cum mi-am dat seama ca eu unul nu intelegeam nimic am zis sa discutam mai pe larg aici... Desigur se va ajunge si al off-topic de genul Americane vs Europene sau Asiatice insa per total poate intelegem toti ce e cu toate acronimele acestea... Ce as dori este ca cei cu experienta in condusul masinilor cu diferite motoare sa ne aduca si ceva deatlii suplimentare vis-a-vis de feelingul la volan sau orice alte lucruri importante de stiut...

Pentru inceput as pune eu niste lucruri interesante pe care le-am gasit despre OHV, OHC...

1. http://www.samarins.com/glossary/dohc.html

OHV, OHC, SOHC and DOHC (twin cam) engine design

Automotive illustrated glossary
OHV engine design
4-cylinder 8 valves OHV engine

OHV means OverHead Valve - an engine design where the camshaft is installed inside the engine block and valves are operated through lifters, pushrods and rocker arms (an OHV engine also known as "Pushrod" engine). Although an OHV design is a bit outdated, it has been successfully used for decades. An OHV engine is very simple, has more compact size and proven to be durable.
Downsides: it's difficult to precisely control the valve timing at high rpm due to higher inertia caused by larger amount of valve train components (lifter-pushrod-rocker arm). Also it's very difficult to install more than 2 valves per cylinder or implement some latest technologies such as Variable Valve Timing - something that could be easily done in a DOHC engine.
OHC or SOHC engine
4-cylinder 8 valves SOHC engine

OHC in general means OverHead Cam while SOHC means Single OverHead Cam.
In the SOHC engine the camshaft is installed in the cylinder head and valves are operated either by the rocker arms or directly through the lifters (as in the picture).
The advantage is that valves are operated almost directly by the camshaft - easy to achieve the perfect timing at high rpm. Also it's possible to install three or four valves per cylinder
The disadvantage - an OHC engine requires a timing belt or chain with related components - more complex and more expensive design.
DOHC or Twin cam engine
4-cylinder 16 valves DOHC engine

DOHC or Double OverHead Cam - the setup used in many today's cars. Since it's possible to install multiple valves per cylinder and place intake valves on the opposite side from exhaust vales, DOHC engine can "breath" better meaning that it can produce more horsepowers with smaller engine volume. Compare: The 3.5-liter V6 DOHC engine of 2003 Nissan Pathfinder has 240 h.p, similar to 245 h.p of the 5.9-liter V8 OHV engine of 2003 Dodge Durango.
Pros: High efficiency, possible to install multiple valves per cylinder and adopt variable timing.
Cons: More complex and more expensive design.


2. http://www.datsuns.com/Tech/ohv_vs_ohc.htm

OHV vs SOHC vs DOHC and 4-valves/cyl
By Dave Lum 4/99
updated 1/01 (2v/cyl vs 4v/cyl)
blank50.gif (825 bytes) OHV (Overhead Valve) SOHC (Single Overhead camshaft), and DOHC (Double Overhead Camshaft) are all terms to describe the cylinder head layout of a modern piston engine.

OHV While all modern automotive piston engines have the valves arranged over the cylinders, OHV engines were named because earlier engines (like the 1930's and 40's) had valves beside the cylinders, not OVER them - so OHV was a a way to differentiate the OHV valve style from say, the Flathead engines. OHV engines have the camshaft below the cylinder head, and thus use lifters and pushrods to help actuate the valves that are in the cylinder head. Compared to OHC engines, they allow for better packaging, but are less efficient compared to OHC designs due to increased valvetrain mass. To open a valve, the camshaft pushes on a lifter, which pushes a pushrod, which pushes on a rocker am, which opens the valve. OHC engines don't have the weight of the pushrod to overcome. While the weight of a pushrod & lifter is seemingly insignificant, when you consider it can account for more than 15% of the valvetrain mass, and it has to open a valve up to 6000 times a minute (or more), it adds up to measurable difference. It's all about inertia - the less weight it has to move, the less energy is required to open the valve, and thus, there is more energy that can be transferred to the crankshaft - meaning more HP to the wheels.

SOHC (Single overhead camshaft) Sometimes referred to as just OHC. The camshaft is in the cylinder head, and the camshaft opens the valve either almost directly (with a shim between the cam lobe and valve stem), or by actuating on a rocker arm. In either case, it doesn't have the added mass of a pushrod. Most SOHC designs have just 2-valves/cylinder, but some manufacturers (like Honda) have SOHC engines that use a 4-valve/cylinder arrangement. SOHC engines have a camshaft in each cylinder head - so an SOHC V-8 actually has two camshafts

DOHC (Double overhead camshaft) A DOHC arrangement is normally used to take advantage of a 4-valve/cylinder arrangement. A typical DOHC design has two camshafts in each cylinder head. The benefits are the same as an SOHC engine, with the added breathing of 4valves/cyl (see below)

4-valves/cylinder. It's all about inertia and breathing here. The key to high specific output (meaning HP per liter, or cu. in.) is breathing and low pumping losses. In the '60's and 70's, to get more HP out of a given displacement a manufacturer would install bigger valves. HP comes from cramming more air and fuel into the cylinder, so a bigger "door" (valve) can let in a bigger air/fuel mixture per stroke . The problem with a bigger valve is that a bigger valve weighs more than a smaller one (assuming the same metallurgy), and this means to control the extra weight as it's flung open is the spring that closes the valve has to be stiffer. A stiffer valve spring (multiplied by the number of valves), means more energy is spent overcoming the valve pressure, thus partially offsetting the gains of a bigger valve. Another disadvantage of a big valve is that at lower RPM's, the intake charge has a lower velocity and low RPM torque and driveability. suffer. Enter a mulitivalve design. Two 30mm valves give more breathing area than a single 60mm one, and each valve weighs less than a 60mm one, as well. I can hear you saying "but TWO 30mm valves weigh more than a single 60mm one!". True, but for each cam lobe, there is less mass to overcome, and the smaller valves don't have to open as far nor do the valve springs have to have as much spring rate. A 4-valve design almost gives you something for nothing, as at lower RPM's the intake velocity is good for each port (they're small ports) so you get good low RPM torque and driveability., while at high RPM's there's sufficient flow (there's two ports) to make good HP. In practice, there

In layman's terms, a DOHC 4-valve/cylinder (or even 5v/cyl) increases HP without sacrificing low RPM torque and driveability. It effectively extends the torque curve. Below is a chart of two identical displacement engines, one is SOHC 2v/cyl, and the other is DOHC and 4v/cyl : See the graphs below (click on images to see full-screen view). For those real nit-picky, you can think of this as 4v/cyl vs 2v/ cyl, as I am aware there are 4v/ cyl SOHC engines)
Nissan VG30E vs VG30DE
midsohc-vs-dohc-tq.gif (3084 bytes) midsohc-vs-dohc-hp.gif (3612 bytes)
2v/cyl vs 4v/cyl - torque 2v/cyl vs 4v/cyl - horsepower

These engines are from the same manufacturer and the same engine family - probably as close as you can get for a direct 2v/cyl vs 4v/cyl comparison. Both are Nissan 3.0L EFI engines. Both engines are relatively stock (only changes are those required to fit them into a 510), and both engines are in the same type of car (early 510). Note that they are essentially identical in torque (one more than 8ft-lbs difference) until 4250rpm, where similarities end. The 4v/cyl torque curve extends another 2000rpm! Since horsepower is torque*rpm/5252, increasing the RPM and maintaining the torque means more HP. Look at the HP chart and you see what I mean. If you race there cars and force both cars to shift at 4250rpm, they will be dead even. This also means in normal driving, in traffic, you will feel no difference.

Those of us who like to rev our engines, however, get to feel the added benefit of breathing, and we get to stay in a given gear longer. So where the 2v/cyl guy here has to shift to 2nd at about 5500rpm, the 4v/cyl car stays in first for another 1250rpm. That means for 1250rpm, the car in first gear is handily out-accelerating the guy who had to shift to 2nd. Doesn't seem like much, but in 2nd and 3rd, you're in those gears longer, which means a longer time for the 4v/cyl guy to stay one gear lower, adding to his lead.

Another advantage of a DOHC design is it makes it easier to add variable valve timing. Not all DOHC designs implement this, as it adds cost, but with variable valve timing, the engine can dynamically adjust the intake and exhaust timing to give an even better spread of low RPM and high RPM power. Honda/Acura, BMW, and Nissan/Infiniti are some of the manufacturers that have variable valve timing on some of their DOHC engines.

The drawback of DOHC? Cost (more parts, more money), packaging (the cylinder head is bigger due to all the cams and valves up there), and maintenance (you have to adjust twice as many valves).

3. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOHC#Dual_overhead_camshaft

4. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pushrod

5. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturally-aspirated_engine

Acest mesaj a fost modificat de akajohn: 30th January 2008, 17:26
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
geopsi
mesaj 30th January 2008, 22:55
Mesaj #2


Active Member

Grup: Members
Mesaje: 1 296
Data înscrierii: 8-September 06
Locație: craiova
ID membru: 95 999



nici io nu inteleg anumite lucruri, am mers cu passat de 1,9 131cp care e dohc si skoda de 105 cp care e ohc. clar cel dohc e mai bun si mai puernic, totusi cred ca are si un consum ceva mai mare desi in afara e cam la fel, dar nu inteleg de ce e mai puernic cel cu 16 valve ca practic tot pe o parte intre motorina si pe alta iese fum. la ohv e altceva, numai ca e pe lant si as lua dar nuprea am vazut masini mai ieftine cu ohv!
poate ne explica si noua cineva caer sa se priceapa la diferite tipuri de motoare de unde vine diferenta de putere!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
MAK
mesaj 30th January 2008, 23:02
Mesaj #3


Senior Member

Grup: Senior Members
Mesaje: 5 939
Data înscrierii: 26-February 05
ID membru: 31 425



QUOTE (geopsi @ Jan 30 2008, 22:55) *
nici io nu inteleg anumite lucruri, am mers cu passat de 1,9 131cp care e dohc si skoda de 105 cp care e ohc.

Cele doua motoare sint identice din punct de vedere constructiv, diferenta este de soft, turbo, injectoare, intercooler.
Tu confunzi cu motorul de 2 L TDI 16 Valve.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
shadow_x3x
mesaj 30th January 2008, 23:56
Mesaj #4


Member

Grup: Members
Mesaje: 897
Data înscrierii: 9-February 07
Locație: Galati
ID membru: 139 966



Despre VTEC (IMG:style_emoticons/default/coolspeak.gif)

http://www.hondafan.ro/phpBB2/viewtopic.ph...sc&start=20

Pe la mijlocul paginii se gaseste explicatia detaliata...
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
anzo
mesaj 31st January 2008, 08:37
Mesaj #5


Member

Grup: Members
Mesaje: 644
Data înscrierii: 2-August 06
Locație: Romania
ID membru: 89 354



QUOTE (geopsi @ Jan 30 2008, 22:55) *
dar nu inteleg de ce e mai puernic cel cu 16 valve

Ai confundat un pic lucrurile, la 1.9TDI motoarele sunt la fel, doar softul difera. Dar in general motoarele cu 16 valve sunt mai puternice decit cele identice cu 8 valve(mai exact cele cu 4valve/cilindru fata de 2 valve/c). Smecheria este in suprafata mai mare de admisie respectiv evacuare. Adica intra mai mult aer si intr-un timp mai scurt, iar gazele arse se evacueaza mai bine.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
geopsi
mesaj 31st January 2008, 13:20
Mesaj #6


Active Member

Grup: Members
Mesaje: 1 296
Data înscrierii: 8-September 06
Locație: craiova
ID membru: 95 999



pai mototrul de pe passatul vechi de 1,9 131 cp nu e dohc? io asa credeam!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Huck_
mesaj 31st January 2008, 13:30
Mesaj #7


Active Member

Grup: Members
Mesaje: 1 497
Data înscrierii: 4-June 07
Locație: Troy, MI
ID membru: 187 447



Din pacate thread-ul asta porneste pe picior gresit. In privinta OHV informatia ori e veche de zeci de ani, ori e pur si simplu falsa. Mi-ar trebui o vesnicie sa discut una cate una prostiile citate in primul mesaj. Nu am nici timpul nici ambitia necesare. Pe cine intereseaza un topic DOHC vs OHV sa deschida unul separat, unde sa se puna probleme distincte si clare la fiecare post, fara sa deverseze o gramada de gunoaie gasite pe net de la inceput.

Imi pare rau dar trebuie sa zic pas la threadul asta.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
MAK
mesaj 31st January 2008, 13:36
Mesaj #8


Senior Member

Grup: Senior Members
Mesaje: 5 939
Data înscrierii: 26-February 05
ID membru: 31 425



QUOTE (Huck_)

Dar la acest topic ce zici, ne apucam de treaba ? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

http://forum.softpedia.com/index.php?showt...p;#entry3846540
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
akajohn
mesaj 31st January 2008, 14:06
Mesaj #9


Active Member

Grup: Senior Members
Mesaje: 2 373
Data înscrierii: 15-July 04
Locație: ici si colo
ID membru: 19 992



QUOTE (Huck_ @ Jan 31 2008, 13:30) *
Din pacate thread-ul asta porneste pe picior gresit. In privinta OHV informatia ori e veche de zeci de ani, ori e pur si simplu falsa. Mi-ar trebui o vesnicie sa discut una cate una prostiile citate in primul mesaj. Nu am nici timpul nici ambitia necesare. Pe cine intereseaza un topic DOHC vs OHV sa deschida unul separat, unde sa se puna probleme distincte si clare la fiecare post, fara sa deverseze o gramada de gunoaie gasite pe net de la inceput.

Imi pare rau dar trebuie sa zic pas la threadul asta.



De acord cu tine... posteaza informatia corecta si un Admin (sau Moderator) va modifica structura (daca il rugam frumos de tot) in asa fel incat informatia corecta sa ajunga la noi... Pana la urma ceea ce am postat eu e ceea ce este gasit si acceptat unanim pe Internet... tocmai de aceeea art fi ideala o discutie aici...
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Huck_
mesaj 31st January 2008, 14:40
Mesaj #10


Active Member

Grup: Members
Mesaje: 1 497
Data înscrierii: 4-June 07
Locație: Troy, MI
ID membru: 187 447





QUOTE (MAK @ Jan 31 2008, 06:36) *


Sigur ca mi-ar place sa fac un overview, dar nu stiu daca am timp.
Am sa incerc, poate saptamanal, sa iau cate un subiect legat de cutiile automate, si poate in timp se strange ceva.
Dar in momentul asta chiar sunt prins in treburi. Poate peste doua saptamani sa incep sa scriu.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
detective
mesaj 31st January 2008, 15:39
Mesaj #11


Active Member

Grup: Members
Mesaje: 1 089
Data înscrierii: 24-March 07
Locație: Arad
ID membru: 158 811



VTEC-ul este de mai multe feluri se pare

VTEC - Variable valve Timing and lift Electronic Control. At low RPM, a VTEC engine uses a normal cam profile to retain a smooth idle, good fuel economy, and good low-end power delivery. The VTEC mechanism engages a high-lift, long-duration ?race? cam profile at a set RPM value (i.e., ~5500RPM on the B16A) to increase high-end power delivery.

VTEC-E - Variable valve Timing and lift Electronic Control for Efficiency. This system isn?t really VTEC as we know it. At low RPM, the VTEC-E mechanism effectively forces the engine to operate as a 12-valve engine - one of the intake valves does not open fully, thus decreasing fuel consumption. At a set RPM value (i.e., ~2500RPM in the D16Y5), the VTEC-E mechanism engages the 2nd intake valve, effectively resuming operation as a normal 16-valve engine. Note: in a VTEC-E engine, there are no high-RPM performance cam profiles; this engine is supposed to be tuned for fuel economy, right?

VTC - Variable Timing Control. This is a mechanism attached to the end of the intake camshaft only which acts as a continuously variable cam gear - it automatically adjusts the overlap between the intake and exhaust cams, effectively allowing the engine to have the most ideal amount of valve overlap in all RPM ranges. VTC is active at all RPMs.

i-VTEC - intelligent Variable valve Timing and lift Electronic Control. This is a combination of both the VTEC and the VTC technologies - in other words, i-VTEC = VTEC + VTC. Currently, the only engines that use the i-VTEC system are the DOHC K-series engines.


Filmulet cu sincronizarea variabila a supapelor la VTEC
si un link destul de interesant http://world.honda.com/history/challenge/1989vtecengine/

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/DDD9096...752F982ED3A.htm


P:S: Imi place ideea topicului, mai descopar si eu ceva nou, keep going

Acest mesaj a fost modificat de detective: 31st January 2008, 15:46
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
akajohn
mesaj 31st January 2008, 22:43
Mesaj #12


Active Member

Grup: Senior Members
Mesaje: 2 373
Data înscrierii: 15-July 04
Locație: ici si colo
ID membru: 19 992



Is there a difference between inline and V engine configurations?

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question366.htm

There are actually three different engine configurations commonly used in automobiles:

* Inline -- the cylinders are arranged in a line in a single bank:

* V -- the cylinders are arranged in two banks set at an angle to one another:

* Flat (also known as horizontally opposed or a boxer) -- the cylinders are arranged in two banks on opposite sides of the engine:


You can find, for example, inline 6 cylinder engines, flat 6 cylinder engines and V-6 engines. If you built all three of these six cylinder engines to the exact same specifications -- same displacement, same valves, same intake and exhaust systems, etc. -- they would likely perform nearly identically. Displacement is displacement.

However, there would be a number of differences between the engines in use. Here are several of them to give you a taste:

* An inline engine is long and narrow. In small cars in particular, a long, narrow engine mounted transversely can allow a very short hood. In an air-cooled engine, the inline configuration is sometimes harder to cool.
* A flat engine is wide and flat. This gives it a low center of gravity.
* A V engine is a compromise between the two. It tends to be more cubical in shape.
* The inline shape needs only half as many camshafts as a V configuration (if using overhead cams), which can lighten things slightly.
* There can be differences in the amount of metal required in the block, meaning that one type might be lighter than the other.
* There can also be cost differences during manufacture.

Designers choose among a number of variables when deciding which configuration to use in a car. Variables include cost, space available under the hood, position requirements, existing manufacturing facilities, power to weight ratio, etc.

People sometimes get religious about engine configuration.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
detective
mesaj 31st January 2008, 23:08
Mesaj #13


Active Member

Grup: Members
Mesaje: 1 089
Data înscrierii: 24-March 07
Locație: Arad
ID membru: 158 811



Mai este si motorul rotativ de la Mazda si motoarele stea sau radial, folosit pe avioane si uneori si pe motoare


Motorul Rotativ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxqCtXVJoEY

Motorul Radial
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hWZ40120BQ...feature=related
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
akajohn
mesaj 5th February 2008, 09:49
Mesaj #14


Active Member

Grup: Senior Members
Mesaje: 2 373
Data înscrierii: 15-July 04
Locație: ici si colo
ID membru: 19 992



M-am uitat la filmulete de am ametit.. oricum e plin youtube de tot felul de filme cu motoare... totusi as vrea sa vad pe cineva care a condus OHV si OHC sa faca o comparatie de feeling in conditiile unor masini similare...
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Huck_
mesaj 7th February 2008, 15:18
Mesaj #15


Active Member

Grup: Members
Mesaje: 1 497
Data înscrierii: 4-June 07
Locație: Troy, MI
ID membru: 187 447



QUOTE (akajohn @ Feb 5 2008, 02:49) *
M-am uitat la filmulete de am ametit.. oricum e plin youtube de tot felul de filme cu motoare... totusi as vrea sa vad pe cineva care a condus OHV si OHC sa faca o comparatie de feeling in conditiile unor masini similare...


Diferenta cea mai mare vine de la cuplu. Motoarele OHV au cuplu foarte mare, din cauza asta au nevoie de mai putine trepte, care in general sunt si destul de lungi, in comparatie cu rapoarte folosite pentru DOHC (ceea ce reduce intrucatva consumul OHV).
Senzatia la acceleratie e complet diferita de cea a unui DOHC: se simte cum motorul OHV trage puternic desi urca foarte incet in rpm (trepte lungi). La DOHC, motorul urla, acul turometrului ajunge imediat la redline, dar masina abia trage.

Dupa ce conduci o vreme OHV, cand te muti pe DOHC si apesi pe acceleratie, sentimentul e ca apesi ca pe un balon desumflat, pedala merge pana la podea si nimic nu se intampla, trebuie sa ajuti motorul din treptele cutiei - senzatia e ca DOHC e foarte anemic (ma refer la motoare de aceesi putere).

Acest mesaj a fost modificat de Huck_: 7th February 2008, 15:23
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
fastcarjunkie
mesaj 8th February 2008, 10:23
Mesaj #16


Active Driver ;)

Grup: Senior Members
Mesaje: 2 344
Data înscrierii: 27-March 07
Locație: Ploiesti
ID membru: 160 023



Aceeasi putere dar nu aceeasi cilindree. Se poate asemana putin cu diferentele de senzatii intre TD si benzina aspirata (bine, minus soundul). In fine la americancele adevarate cutia nu avea mai mult de 3 si in cazuri extreme 4 rapoarte.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Huck_
mesaj 8th February 2008, 14:45
Mesaj #17


Active Member

Grup: Members
Mesaje: 1 497
Data înscrierii: 4-June 07
Locație: Troy, MI
ID membru: 187 447



QUOTE (fastcarjunkie @ Feb 8 2008, 03:23) *
Aceeasi putere dar nu aceeasi cilindree.


Cilindreea nu conteaza, dimensiunile exterioare si greutatea motorului conteaza.
Iar din punctul asta de vedere, OHV produce mai multa putere pentru aceleasi dimensiuni si greutate ale motorului decat DOHC.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Anunțuri noi
mesaj A minute ago
Mesaj #


Anunțuri publicate recent de forumiști >>

Grup: Bot






Cumpar Media Player Xtreamer
Preț: 500 RON
Localitate: chiajna
Timp rămas: 88 zile
Cartier v8 Luxury DUAL SIM-suflat...
Preț: 599 RON
Localitate: Bucuresti
Timp rămas: 22 zile
Wifi Box
Preț: 260 RON
Localitate: Bucuresti
Timp rămas: 18 zile
motorola aura dual sim - telefon ...
Preț: 600 RON
Localitate: Bucuresti
Timp rămas: 22 zile
   Anunțuri publicate recent de forumiști în secțiunea dedicată de anunțuri a Forumului Softpedia. Poți adăuga (gratuit) anunțurile tale chiar acum!
Go to the top of the page
 

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 utilizatori citesc acest subiect (1 utilizatori neautentificați și 0 anonimi)
0 Membri:

 

RSS Versiune simplificată Data: 9th February 2010 - 21:51
© 2001 - 2010 Softpedia. All rights reserved.
Softpedia® and Softpedia logo are registered trademarks of Soft News NET SRL.
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact Softpedia