Ce doreste natiunea secuiasca ?, UDMR vrea acelasi lucru, dar obtinut in alt mod. Opţiuni

[data]

...
Data acuma te intreb unde s-a intimplat acest eveniment ? Dar sincer . Ca eu nu stiu in zona mea de nici un caz de acest gen ..si i-ti spun e o zona unde umbla foarte multi romani de la Bucuresti pina la Constanta ..si niciodata nu am auzit de la nimeni ca nu au fost serviti s-au vanzatoarea facea mofturi ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Nu exclud ca exista si niste cazuri de acest gen ...dar cred ca in proportii foarte mici . (IMG:style_emoticons/default/puke.gif)

prima data la Miercurea-Ciuc, la un magazin, a doua oara la Tg-Mures, intr-un parc peste drum de facultatea de medicina, era si un lac cu barcute (daca are importanta pentru tine era inainte de '89)

[cartman_sp99]

Apoi despre udmr ..pe mine nu ma intereseaza ..asta si vrem multi sa nu mai intra in parlament. Ca pe astia nu-l mai intereseaza nimic in afara de "ciolan " . Si ce daca nu vom avea 4 ani reprezentare in parlament ? Nu se va intimpla nimic , ci va aduce la crestera in putere a UCM. Si peste 4 ani vom avea o reprezentare puternica si din oameni care vor sa faca ceva pt maghiarii din Ro. Asa ca nu ma sperii cu scenarii....dar din pacate crezi ca cei de la udmr nu stiu acest lucru.?..si ca sa nu cada in afara acuma, dupa 6 ani de scandaluri cu UCM o sa fie obligati sa se aseze la acelasi masa si se faca o coalitie pt alegerile viitoare ...si asta o sa fie . (Asa sa intimplat si in Slovacia unde coalitia maghiara este formata din 5 partide ..si au o reprezentare puternica in parlamentul slovac ) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Pai voi credeti ca UDMR o sa imparta cu vreo cineva ciolanul chiar si maghiari de-or fi ?Dupa 4 ani de lupte interne nu o sa mai existati ca forta politica. Tu tot nu intelegi mai ,UDMR e partea democrata si europeana (sau asa se considera) CNS/UCM (e partea radicala) e ca o sabie cu doua taisuri daca UDMR nu se aliaza isi pastreaza electoratul sa zicem 3 % si UCM/CNS 3% in cazurile astea nu intra nici unul in parlament, daca vor face o coalitie cei care vor dori sa voteze cu UDMR nu vor mai vota pentru ca votand cu UDMR ar trage in sus si pe UCM/CNS cei care vor dori sa voteze numai cu UCM/CNS nu vor vota pentru ca vor trage in sus pe UDMR in cazul asta se va produce absenteism si liderii acestor partide nu isi pot permite abesenteism la urne pentru ca cei 5 % sunt cruciali.Sa presupunem ca ajung la o intelegere si intra in parlament o coalitie formata din UDMR/CNS/UCM ce guvern roman crezi ca ar sta la masa tratativelor cu Tokes ? si apoi stii cum se voteaza in coalitie, fiecare cum il duce capul (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Ca sa nu mai vorbim de eventualitatea introducerii votului uninominal care ar mai arunca o lopata de pamant peste reprezentarea voastra in parlament .Ca sa nu mai zic ca va imbatati cu apa rece de izvor (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) la alegerile din 2004 UDMR a fost tras in sus de PSD la urmatoarele alegeri nu va mai fi asa pentru ca PSD nu isi va mai permite sa va ajute atata timp cat el insusi are probleme si tinand cont de faptul ca UDMR a mai tradat odata (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Poate sunt scenarii vom vedea la urmatoarele alegeri ,dar tare ma bucur ca o sa imi dai dreptate mai tarziu (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[Naga]

Bravo, ai dreptate!
Dar nu cumva mandria cu care tu si altii exhibati valorile culturale si de civilizatie maghiara in opozitia cu "lipsa" lor din partea romana / cine se lauda cu premii Nobel?/ , participarea maghiarilor la descoperirtea tuturor elementelor de civilizatie: gulas, chibrit, calculator, bomba, vitamina C, studiouri Fox, pix samd NU INSEAMNA TOT NATIONALISM? LOcul acelora care afirma superioritatea de cultura si de civilizatie a maghiarilor nu e tot in COCINA aceea in care, atit de elegantn ne-ai bagat? nu sunt si ei HANDICAPATI?

Sau nationalismul e negativ numai cand este afirmat de romani?
Asa ca, daca exista cocine nationaliste, exista macar doua: una romaneasca si una ungureasca. La fel si handicapatii: vin din 2 tari!

Sorin mok, no offense, dar se pare ca nu prea ai citit de la inceput ce s-a scris pe temele astea. Fanariotul, Picard & co. au inceput prin a acuza poporul maghiar in intregul sau ca (cica) nu ar fi capabil de creatie, ca ar fi un popor de "pigmei asiatici" (citat din fanariotul) etc. si nu noi (eu, Tapas, Benedict sau Kukker) am inceput prin a lauda realizarile poporului maghiar. Vad ca faci o confuzie in ce priveste partea care a initiat discutia asta si nu numai. Toate exemplele astea de oameni de stiinta sau artisti maghiari pe care le-am dat au avut ca scop doar contracararea declaratiilor xenofobe despre "migratorii asiatici" a la fanariotul. Eu unul nu afirm superioritatea maghiarilor (desi adevarul de necontestat este ca totusi maghiarii au mai multe premii Nobel decat romanii, iar artistii lor sunt mai cunoscuti in Occident decat ai nostri) ci afirm ca cei care imprastie idei de genul "maghiarii sunt un popor de asiatici migratori fara capacitati creatoare" sunt niste imbecili. N-are decat sa imi dea Mosotti inca un warn pentru declaratia asta dar imi mentin pozitia.
Din luarile tale de pozitie de pe alte topicuri am crezut ca esti un tip destul de rational si nu te lasi ghidat de prejudecati. Poate ar fi mai bine sa citesti si ce s-a scris in urma, ca sa vezi cum de s-a ajuns aici, ce crezi? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nono.gif)

Off dragii mosului ,cred ca programa nationala de vaccinari ar trebui sa cuprinda in judetele Covasna-Harghita-Mures ( ce credeati ca o sa zic Tinutul Secuiesc ? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ) pilula care face minuni , "the red pill" poate asa multi se vor trezi la realitate si vor scapa de matrix-ul autonom si independent.
Cat despre cei care cred ca va fi autonomie peste 10 ani le recomand butonul reset. Kukker pe cine aburesti tu mai baiete ?5-10 ani (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) pai asa ati zis si in '90 si uite ca tot nu o aveti !
De unde atata mandrie ca v-a vizitat Basescu ? ce ati obtinut ? unde au fost cavalerii in armura stralucitoare care militau pentru autonomie in acea zi ??? de ce nu a mai pomenit nici un oficial de autonomie in acea zi ??? de ce tot staful vorbea intr-o romana perfecta ? unde au disparut steagurile Ungariei pe 16 martie !
Vreti sa va zic de ce v-a vizitat nea' Basescu ? presedintele v-a vizitat pentru ca in felul asta loveste indirect in UDMR si sustine UCM/CNS in mintea voastra ati spune ca e perfect ... nu e dragii mei nu e, pentru voi cel putin, sustinand CNS/UCM deposedeaza de electorat pe UDMR!
Si uite cum sta treaba 6 : 2 = 3 si cu 3% nu intra nici dracu' in parlament succes dragilor succes (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Cartman, imi pare rau pentru tine, dar chiar astazi pe la ora 13 a fost o emisiune interesanta la TVR1 in care un reprezentant al societatii civile si unul al clasei politice (amandoi romani, dar nu spun cine (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ) au recunoscut (cam cu strangere de inima) ca dupa aderarea in UE maghiarii vor obtine o oarecare autonomie. Si nu e prima oara cand politicieni romani admit (cu noduri in gat) ca ceva-ceva autonomie culturala tot o sa fie.

1. Presiune din partea UE - exclus. Politica UE in privinta asta e clara, nu se baga in treburile de natura asta; organizarea politico-administrativa e o decizie strict interna. Pica.

Parerea mea e ca iti cam faci iluzii. UE nu se baga in treburile interne ale unei tari ca Franta, dar cand e vorba de Romania se cam schimba foaia. Ar fi trebuit sa te uiti la TVR1 pe la orele 13-14, cand intr-o emisiune s-a vorbit in mod deschis de faptul ca UE intr-adevar face "presiuni" pentru regionalizare si autonomie locala. S-a pomenit chiar si de "autonomie culturala" pentru secui, desi cu fereala, de parca i-ar fi fript cuvintele respective pe interlocutori. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[cartman_sp99]

Cartman, imi pare rau pentru tine, dar chiar astazi pe la ora 13 a fost o emisiune interesanta la TVR1 in care un reprezentant al societatii civile si unul al clasei politice (amandoi romani, dar nu spun cine (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ) au recunoscut (cam cu strangere de inima) ca dupa aderarea in UE maghiarii vor obtine o oarecare autonomie. Si nu e prima oara cand politicieni romani admit (cu noduri in gat) ca ceva-ceva autonomie culturala tot o sa fie.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Vom vedea ,cine rade la urma rade mai bine nu te baza pe ce spun 2 politicieni pentru ca mai e si presiunea populatiei si a unor nebuni nu spun care dar se stiu ei (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) care nu vor permite asta , si da recunosc vor obtine o anumita autonomie in sensul ca vor mai obtine vreo 20 de scoli dar in nici un caz una teritoriala, tot de la Bucuresti se vor da ordinele oricat de mult viseaza unii (IMG:style_emoticons/default/coolspeak.gif) !! Si Ue ne poate santaja pana intram in UE dupa aia bye bye pentru ca Romania o sa aiba niste voturi prin parlamentul european ! plus sustinerea Germaniei si a Frantei asa ca dragul meu vom vedea ! desi cred ca iti faci vise degeaba !Asa cum a fost si cu 15 martie cand strigau toti in gura mare ca a venit in sfarsit ziua cand ungurii nu vor mai fi oprimati ,ei a trecut si 15 martie si tot asa au ramas lucrurile !! Inca odata Ue nu poate dicta nimic poate face presiuni acum cat inca nu suntem membri , dar dupa aia se cam schimba foaia !! o sa vedeti !

Acest mesaj a fost modificat de cartman_sp99: 19th March 2006, 16:34

[Naga]

Ca sa fie clare lucrurile, emisiunea de care pomeneam se numeste "Saptamana politica" si i-a avut ca invitati pe fostul deputat pesedel Iosif Boda si pe Cristian Parvulescu (cel de la "Pro-Democratia"). In cadrul emisiunii a fost abordata problema "Odorhei-15 martie". Amandoi invitatii au sustinut ideea ca UE vrea in Romania regionalizare si autonomie locala, dar Iosif Boda a fost cel care si-a luat inima-n dinti si a declarat (cu jumatate de gura) ca dupa integrare se va acorda si ceva "autonomie culturala" pentru secui.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Vom vedea ,cine rade la urma rade mai bine nu te baza pe ce spun 2 politicieni pentru ca mai e si presiunea populatiei si a unor nebuni nu spun care da se stiu ei (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) care nu vor permite asta , si da recunosc vor obtine o anumita autonomie in sensul ca vor mai obtine vreo 20 de scoli dar in nici un caz una teritoriala, tot de la Bucuresti se vor da ordinele oricat de mult viseaza unii (IMG:style_emoticons/default/coolspeak.gif) !! Si Ue ne poate santaja pana intram in UE dupa aia bye bye pentru ca Romania o sa aiba niste voturi prin parlamentul european ! plus sustinerea Germaniei si a Frantei asa ca dragul meu vom vedea ! desi cred ca iti faci vise degeaba !Asa cum a fost si cu 15 martie cand strigau toti in gura mare ca a venit insfarsit ziua cand ungurii nu vor mai fi oprimati ,ei a trecut si 15 martie si tot asa au ramas lucrurile !! Inca odata Ue nu poate dicta nimic poate face presiuni acum cat inca nu suntem membri , dar dupa aia se cam schimba foaia !! o sa vedeti !

Nu inteleg pe ce va bazati atunci cand ii tot dati cu sustinerea Germaniei in cazul asta. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) Germania este stat federal (iar unele landuri au fost constituite si pe niste criterii etnico-lingvistice, nu numai pur administrative) si nu are nici un interes major sa sustina pozitia acelor romani care tin cu dintii de principiile "statului national unitar". In plus Germania este dupa SUA al doilea mare investitor strain in Ungaria si are relatii stranse cu statul maghiar (care a facut permanent lobby pentru autonomia secuilor). Iar in Romania, Germania (spre deosebire de Austria (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ) nu a investit mare lucru.
Franta si Grecia au intr-adevar un interes in sustinerea nationalistilor romani, dar Germania nu prea. Germanii sunt mai inclinati sa simpatizeze cu maghiarii decat cu romanii in probleme de genul "autonomiei culturale".

http://german.about.com/library/weekly/aa051198.htm

German-learners who step off the plane in Austria, Germany, or Switzerland for the first time are in for a shock if they know nothing about German dialects. Although standard German (Hochdeutsch) is widespread and commonly used in typical business or tourist situations, there always comes a time when you suddenly can't understand a word, even if your German is pretty good.

When that happens, it usually means you have encountered one of the many dialects of German. (Estimates on the number of German dialects vary, but range from about 50 to 250. The large discrepancy has to do with the difficulty in defining the term dialect.) This is a perfectly understandable phenomenon if you realize that in the early middle ages in what is now the German-speaking part of Europe there existed ONLY the many different dialects of the various Germanic tribes. There was no common German language until much later. In fact, the first common language, Latin, was introduced by the Roman incursions into the Germanic region, and one can see the result in "German" words like Kaiser (emperor, from Caesar) and Student.

Acest mesaj a fost modificat de Naga: 19th March 2006, 16:41

[Benedict]

Eu am incredere in responsabilitatea si abilitatea politicienilor care conduc Romania. Vor face in asa fel incat toate partile sa fie multumite si intr-un final Romania sa fie in castig. Dialogul si numai dialogul este cheia succesului.
Sa ne ajute Dumnezeu.

[Naga]

De cand am inceput sa intru pe topicurile dedicate autonomiei, am vazut ca Picard, cartman & co. ii tot dau inainte cu ideea ca Franta si Germania nu ar fi de acord din principiu cu autonomia secuilor si ca ar sprijini tabara nationalista romaneasca. In ce priveste Franta sunt de acord, dar care ar fi motivele unei astfel de pozitii a germanilor? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) Germanii au de foarte mult timp un stat federal, in care si diferentele de ordin lingvistic sunt foarte mari de la land la land (pana acolo incat unele dialecte nu sunt mutual inteligibile, fapt care face foarte necesara cunoasterea germanei "literare"). Luand in considerare modul de organizare administrativ-teritorial al Germaniei si diversitatea lingvistica din statul german, mult mai logic ar fi ca germanii sa simpatizeze mai mult cu secuii decat cu nationalistii romani in problema autonomiei. In plus, Germania are si legaturi economice puternice cu Ungaria. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_language Dialects The term "German" is used for the dialects of Germany, Austria, German-speaking Switzerland (that is, outside the French-, Italian-, and Romansch-speaking areas) and some areas in the surrounding countries, as well as for several colonies and other ethnic concentrations founded by German-speaking people (for example German in the United States). The variation among the German dialects is considerable, with only the neighbouring dialects being mutually understandable. Most dialects are not understandable for someone who knows standard German. However, all German dialects belong to the dialect continuum of the continental West Germanic languages because any pair of neighbouring dialects is perfectly mutually intelligible. The dialect continuum of the continental West Germanic languages is typically divided into Low Germanic languages and High Germanic languages. Low Germanic is defined as the varieties that were not affected by the High German consonant shift. They consist of two subgroups, Low Franconian and Low German. Low Franconian includes Dutch and Afrikaans, spoken primarily in the Netherlands, Belgium, Surinam and South Africa; Low German includes dialects spoken primarily in the German Lowlands and in the eastern Netherlands. The Low German varieties are considered dialects of the German language by some, but a separate language by others; the Low Franconian varieties are not considered a part of the German language (see above for a discussion of the distinction between German and Dutch). High Germanic is divided into Central German and Upper German. Central German dialects include Ripuarian, Moselle Franconian, Rhine Franconian, Hessian, Thuringian and Upper Saxon. It is spoken in the southeastern Netherlands, eastern Belgium, Luxembourg, parts of France, and in Germany approximately between the River Main and the southern edge of the Lowlands. Modern Standard German is mostly based on Central German, but it should be noted that the usual German term for modern Standard German is Hochdeutsch, that is, High German. The Moselle Franconian varieties spoken in Luxembourg have been officially standardized and institutionalized and are therefore usually considered a separate language known as Luxembourgish. Upper German dialects include Alemannic (for instance Swiss German), Swabian, East Franconian, and Austro-Bavarian. They are spoken in parts of the Alsace, southern Germany, Liechtenstein, Austria, and in the German-speaking parts of Switzerland and Italy. The High German varieties spoken by Ashkenazi Jews (mostly in the former Soviet Union) have several unique features, and are usually considered as a separate language, Yiddish. It is the only Germanic language that does not use the Latin alphabet as its standard script. The dialects of German which are or were primarily spoken in colonies founded by German speaking people resemble the dialects of the regions the founders came from. For example, Pennsylvania German resembles dialects of the Palatinate, and Hutterite German resembles dialects of Carinthia, while Venezuelan Alemán Coloniero is a Low Alemannic variant. In Brazil the largest concentrations of German speakers (German Brazilians) are in Rio Grande do Sul, where Riograndenser Hunsrückisch was developed, especially in the areas of Santa Catarina, Paraná, and Espírito Santo. In the United States, the teaching of the German language to latter-age students has given rise to a pidgin variant which combines the German language with the grammar and spelling rules of the English language. It is often understandable by either party. The speakers of this language often refer to it as Amerikanisch or Amerikanischdeutsch, although it is known in English as American German. Standard German In German linguistics, only the traditional regional varieties are called dialects, not the different varieties of standard German. Standard German has originated not as a traditional dialect of a specific region, but as a written language. However, there are places where the traditional regional dialects have been replaced by standard German (especially in major cities of Germany, and to some extent in Vienna). Standard German differs regionally, especially between German-speaking countries, especially in vocabulary, but also in some instances of pronunciation and even grammar. This variation must not be confused with the variation of local dialects. Even though the regional varieties of standard German are to a certain degree influenced by the local dialects, they are very distinct. German is thus considered a pluricentric language. In most regions, the speakers use a continuum of mixtures from more dialectical varieties to more standard varieties according to situation. In the German-speaking parts of Switzerland, mixtures of dialect and standard are very seldom used, and the use of standard German is almost entirely restricted to the written language. Therefore, this situation has been called a medial diglossia. Standard German is rarely spoken, for instance when speaking with people who do not understand the Swiss German dialects at all, and it is expected to be used in school. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Hungary Prior to the change of regime in 1989, 65% of Hungary's trade was with Comecon countries. By the end of 1997, Hungary had shifted much of its trade to the West. Trade with EU countries and the OECD now comprises over 70% and 80% of the total, respectively. Germany is Hungary's single most important trading partner. The U.S. has become Hungary's sixth-largest export market, while Hungary is ranked as the 72d largest export market for the U.S. Bilateral trade between the two countries increased 46% in 1997 to more than $1 billion. The U.S. has extended to Hungary most-favored-nation status, the Generalized System of Preferences, Overseas Private Investment Corporation insurance, and access to the Export-Import Bank. With about $18 billion in foreign direct investment (FDI) since 1989, Hungary has attracted over one-third of all FDI in central and eastern Europe, including the former Soviet Union. Of this, about $6 billion came from American companies. Foreign capital is attracted by skilled and relatively inexpensive labor, tax incentives, modern infrastructure, and a good telecommunications system .......................... Exports - partners: Germany 34.1%, Austria 8%, Italy 5.8%, France 5,7%, UK 4.5%, Netherlands 4,1% (2003) ............... Imports - partners: Germany 24.5%, Italy 7.1%, China 6.9%, Austria 6.3%, Russia 6.2%, France 4,8%, Japan 4,2% (2003) In concluzie, cartman, Picard & co., care credeti voi ca ar fi interesul Germaniei in a apara principiul "statului national unitar" roman (asa cum il inteleg nationalistii romani) atata vreme cat germanii traiesc intr-un stat federal si caracterizat de diversitate lingvistica si culturala? Si de ce credeti ca neamtul va apleca urechea mai mult catre plangerile romanului decat catre cele ale secuiului, avand in vedere ca unul dintre partenerii economici cei mai apropiati ai neamtului este maghiarul, varul secuiului? Nu credeti ca voi cam faceti confuzie intre cum ati dori sa fie realitatea si cum este ea cu adevarat? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nono.gif) Stiu ca unele lucruri in viata nu sunt placute si sunt greu de acceptat, dar tactica strutului nu rezolva nimic.

Acest mesaj a fost modificat de Naga: 19th March 2006, 17:14

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[Tuliman]

Germania este stat federal (iar unele landuri au fost constituite si pe niste criterii etnico-lingvistice, nu numai pur administrative) si nu are nici un interes major sa sustina pozitia acelor romani care tin cu dintii de principiile "statului national unitar". In plus Germania este dupa SUA al doilea mare investitor strain in Ungaria si are relatii stranse cu statul maghiar (care a facut permanent lobby pentru autonomia secuilor). Iar in Romania, Germania (spre deosebire de Austria (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ) nu a investit mare lucru.
Franta si Grecia au intr-adevar un interes in sustinerea nationalistilor romani, dar Germania nu prea. Germanii sunt mai inclinati sa simpatizeze cu maghiarii decat cu romanii in probleme de genul "autonomiei culturale".

http://www.uoc.es/euromosaic/web/document/...s/an/i1/i1.html

3.3. Public authorities and services

Danish is not used in official communication with the German central administration. Official documents and statements have to be translated into German. In interactions at the regional and local level it is used infrequently, only if an official happens to know Danish. The language of offical notices, public signs and directions is German.

Pana si utilizarea limbii minoritare in administratie ar da nastere unui precedent incomod, inclusiv pt Fra si Ger. Sa nu uitam ca dupa aderare, Ro va avea 22 de mil de voturi, adica peste media UE.

http://www.uoc.edu/euromosaic/web/homean/index1.html

1.3 Official legal political status

Article 7 of the Austrian treaty of 1955, concerning the protection of minorities, does not apply to the Hungarian minority of Burgenland. There are no longer any legislative actions in virtue of which the Hungarian language would exist in governmental administration. The Ethnic Group Law of 1976 subordinates the promotion of ethnic groups to their demographic status which is paradoxical, in that the strongest groups (in a particular region or locality) are most likely to profit. The Hungarians and Croats of Burgenland, with the Slovenes of Carinthia seek a revision of that Law since it does not afford any benefit to the ethnic groups. The Hungarians of Burgenland are represented on the Consultative Committee of Ethnic Groups where they have a seat and a voting right.

http://www.uoc.edu/euromosaic/web/document...s/an/i1/i1.html

1.3. Legal status and official policies

The basic principles of the Swedish Constitution state as follows: "Opportunities should be promoted for ethnic, linguistic and religious minorities to preserve and develop a cultural and social life of their own". This has meant that Finnish has been promoted, i.e. it is taught at school; its existence, then, has been recognised. However, Finnish has not been given a full official status in Sweden, except that of an immigrant language: Finnish speakers cannot deal with the Administration using their own language.

Edit: Pana acum am gasit un singur exemplu in care limba unei minoritati este utilizata (intr-o forma restransa) in administratia locala. Nu ma refer la situatii gen Spania, consider ca la ei e o cu totul alta situatie decat in cazul nostru.


2.4. Legal status and official policies
.........
Flemish is spoken in the north-west of France by an estimated population of 20,000 daily speakers and 40,000 occasional speakers.......
The Flemish language is not afforded any legal status in France, either by central or regional institutions. It enjoys no official recognition, either by the public authorities or by the education system.

2.4. Legal status and official policies

Corsican has no official status within the French legal system, although it enjoys some measure of official recognition as the result of a French Government decree of 1974 on the teaching of the Corsican language in schools (application of the Deixonne Act to Corsica). In addition, the Savary circular of 1982 redefined the conditions governing the teaching of Corsican, especially in primary schools. The substance of these instruments was that the French Government sanctioned the optional use of Corsican within the education system, while the regional Government of Corsica was to support the Corsican language by helping institutions to publish educational works, to publish Corsican books in general and to train Corsican-speaking teachers.

Acest mesaj a fost modificat de Tuliman: 19th March 2006, 17:40

[Naga]

http://www.uoc.es/euromosaic/web/document/...s/an/i1/i1.html

3.3. Public authorities and services

Danish is not used in official communication with the German central administration. Official documents and statements have to be translated into German. In interactions at the regional and local level it is used infrequently, only if an official happens to know Danish. The language of offical notices, public signs and directions is German.

Pana si utilizarea limbii minoritare in administratie ar da nastere unui precedent incomod, inclusiv pt Fra si Ger. Sa nu uitam ca dupa aderare, Ro va avea 22 de mil de voturi, adica peste media UE.

http://www.uoc.edu/euromosaic/web/homean/index1.html

1.3 Official legal political status

Article 7 of the Austrian treaty of 1955, concerning the protection of minorities, does not apply to the Hungarian minority of Burgenland. There are no longer any legislative actions in virtue of which the Hungarian language would exist in governmental administration. The Ethnic Group Law of 1976 subordinates the promotion of ethnic groups to their demographic status which is paradoxical, in that the strongest groups (in a particular region or locality) are most likely to profit. The Hungarians and Croats of Burgenland, with the Slovenes of Carinthia seek a revision of that Law since it does not afford any benefit to the ethnic groups. The Hungarians of Burgenland are represented on the Consultative Committee of Ethnic Groups where they have a seat and a voting right.

http://www.uoc.edu/euromosaic/web/document...s/an/i1/i1.html

1.3. Legal status and official policies

The basic principles of the Swedish Constitution state as follows: "Opportunities should be promoted for ethnic, linguistic and religious minorities to preserve and develop a cultural and social life of their own". This has meant that Finnish has been promoted, i.e. it is taught at school; its existence, then, has been recognised. However, Finnish has not been given a full official status in Sweden, except that of an immigrant language: Finnish speakers cannot deal with the Administration using their own language.

Edit: Pana acum am gasit un singur exemplu in care limba unei minoritati este utilizata (intr-o forma restransa) in administratia locala. Nu ma refer la situatii gen Spania, consider ca la ei e o cu totul alta situatie decat in cazul nostru.
2.4. Legal status and official policies
.........
Flemish is spoken in the north-west of France by an estimated population of 20,000 daily speakers and 40,000 occasional speakers.......
The Flemish language is not afforded any legal status in France, either by central or regional institutions. It enjoys no official recognition, either by the public authorities or by the education system.

2.4. Legal status and official policies

Corsican has no official status within the French legal system, although it enjoys some measure of official recognition as the result of a French Government decree of 1974 on the teaching of the Corsican language in schools (application of the Deixonne Act to Corsica). In addition, the Savary circular of 1982 redefined the conditions governing the teaching of Corsican, especially in primary schools. The substance of these instruments was that the French Government sanctioned the optional use of Corsican within the education system, while the regional Government of Corsica was to support the Corsican language by helping institutions to publish educational works, to publish Corsican books in general and to train Corsican-speaking teachers.

1. Danezii din Germania sunt putini, in jur de 50.000 (cam cati sunt turcii si tatarii in Dobrogea) si nu sunt majoritari in tinuturile populate de ei (spre deosebire de ei, secuii si maghiarii din regiunea Harcov sunt de peste zece ori mai numerosi, constituie majoritatea in zona, iar populatia Romaniei este de patru ori mai mica decat cea a Germaniei)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Schleswig

The German majority in Southern Schleswig does not consider the region any different than the rest of Schleswig-Holstein. This notion is disputed by Danes, particularly Danish historians, and the Danish minority of Southern Schleswig.

Major cities in the southern part of Schleswig are Flensburg, Rendsburg, the city of Schleswig and Husum.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danish_minori...thern_Schleswig

2. Nu m-am referit la Austria ci la Germania. In ce priveste Austria, am pus paranteza aia ca sa ating in treacat un alt subiect, cel al Romaniei "land austriac" (citat din Ungureanu, ministrul de externe al Romaniei). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

3. Uite ca finlandezii dau autonomie teritoriala suedezilor de pe teritoriul lor. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%85land

Ĺland

The Aland Islands, or Landskapet aland in Swedish, or Ahvenanmaan maakunta/Ahvenanmaa in Finnish, are an autonomous, demilitarised, monolingually Swedish-speaking administrative province of Finland. (Aland is pronounced /'ɔː.lćn/or /'ɔː.lćnd/ in English.) The Aland Islands consist of a Main Island, Fasta Aland, with 90% of the population, and east thereof an archipelago of more than 6,500 skerries and islands at the entrance to the Gulf of Bothnia. Fasta Aland is separated by open water from the coast of Sweden, 40 kilometres (25 mi) to the west. In the east, the Aland archipelago is virtually contiguous with the Finnish Archipelago Sea.

By reason of Aland's autonomous status, the powers exercised at provincial level by representatives of the central state administration in the rest of Finland are here largely in the remit of the Government of Ĺland (Alands landskapsregering).


4. Vrei si alte exemple de regiuni autonome pe criterii etnice in UE? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Tirol

South Tyrol (German and Ladin: Südtirol, Italian: Alto Adige; official in German: Autonome Provinz Bozen - Südtirol, official in Italian: Provincia Autonoma di Bolzano - Alto Adige, official in Ladin: Provinzia Autonňma de Balsan - Südtirol) is an autonomous province of Italy that belongs to the region of Trentino-South Tyrol, of which it is a subdivision. South Tyrol's extensive autonomy makes it de facto comparable to an autonomous region of Italy. The province itself is divided into 116 municipalities called communes[1]. The capital of the province is Bozen-Bolzano. It has an area of 7 400 km˛, and a total population of 476,023 (2004). South Tyrol is known for its mountains, which compose a portion of the Italian Alps and the main Alps chain located in Europe.

The province was part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire until the end of World War I when it was ceded to Italy together with the southern Italian-speaking province of Trento. After World War II, the German-speaking majority population of the region requested a possible reunification with Austria, but the idea was rejected by the Allied Powers in 1945 and in 1946. Because of the rejection, Austria and Italy agreed on autonomy for South Tyrol and now the province enjoys a degree of self rule from the Italian Government and lively relations with Austria

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basque_Countr...us_community%29

Basque Country (Basque Euskadi, Spanish País Vasco) is an autonomous community with the status of historic region within Spain, the capital of which is Vitoria (Basque Gasteiz). It is part of the larger Basque native lands, which are also called the “Basque Country.”

The following Spanish provinces make up Basque Country:
Álava (Basque Araba) capital Vitoria (Basque Gasteiz)
Vizcaya (Basque Bizkaia) capital Bilbao (Basque Bilbo)
Guipúzcoa (Basque Gipuzkoa) capital San Sebastián (Basque Donostia)

Before the Spanish Constitution of 1978 and its system of autonomous communities, these three provinces were known in Spanish as the Provincias Vascongadas, an antiquated term still used by many. The autonomous communities political structure is defined the Gernika Statute, which was approved in a controversial, and substantially boycotted, referendum on October 25, 1979. The governing Basque Nationalist Party proposes to alter this statute through the Ibarretxe Plan.

The autonomous community has its own police force (the Ertzaintza), education and health systems, and a Basque radio/TV station.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotland#Politics

Politics

As one of the constituent parts of the United Kingdom, the head of state in Scotland is the British monarch, currently Queen Elizabeth II (since 1952). Executive power is derived from the Queen, and exercised by the Parliament of the United Kingdom at Westminster, and the Scottish Parliament in Edinburgh. The United Kingdom Parliament retains power over Scotland's taxes, social security system, defence, international relations and certain other areas. The Scottish Parliament has legislative authority for all other areas relating to Scotland, and has limited power to vary income tax. The Scottish Parliament is not a sovereign authority, and the UK Parliament could, in theory, overrule or even abolish it at any time.

The Scottish Parliament was first established in 1998 under the Scotland Act. The Parliament is a unicameral legislature comprised of 129 Members, 73 of whom represent individual constituencies and are elected on a first past the post system; 56 are elected in eight different electoral regions by the additional member system. The Queen appoints one of the members of the Parliament, on the nomination of the Parliament, to be First Minister. Other Ministers are also appointed by the Queen on the nomination of the Parliament and together with the First Minister they make up Scottish Executive, the executive arm of government.

Acest mesaj a fost modificat de Naga: 19th March 2006, 17:55

[cartman_sp99]

De cand am inceput sa intru pe topicurile dedicate autonomiei, am vazut ca Picard, cartman & co. ii tot dau inainte cu ideea ca Franta si Germania nu ar fi de acord din principiu cu autonomia secuilor si ca ar sprijini tabara nationalista romaneasca. In ce priveste Franta sunt de acord, dar care ar fi motivele unei astfel de pozitii a germanilor? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) Germanii au de foarte mult timp un stat federal, in care si diferentele de ordin lingvistic sunt foarte mari de la land la land (pana acolo incat unele dialecte nu sunt mutual inteligibile, fapt care face foarte necesara cunoasterea germanei "literare").
Luand in considerare modul de organizare administrativ-teritorial al Germaniei si diversitatea lingvistica din statul german, mult mai logic ar fi ca germanii sa simpatizeze mai mult cu secuii decat cu nationalistii romani in problema autonomiei. In plus, Germania are si legaturi economice puternice cu Ungaria.

Care au fost statele care au respins recomandarea lui Frunda Franta si ....... (cred ca stii raspunsu') Ne sustin dar in mod indirect .Pentru ca sustinand tot felul de proiecte de legi propuse de unguri isi vad amenintata propria lor pozitie !! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[Naga]

Imi cer scuze privind unele probleme cu modul de scriere al unor denumiri din finlandeza, pe care softul softpedia nu le poate accepta din cauza caracterelor.
Tuliman, Spania nu este singura tara din UE care are zone autonome pe criterii etnice. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nono.gif) Pe langa ea mai sunt si Italia (Tirolul de Sud), Marea Britanie (Scotia, Wales) si Finlanda.
Iar in ce priveste Suedia, uite ca acorda si suedezii ceva "autonomie culturala". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sami_Parliament

Sami Parliament

It has been suggested that this article or section be merged with Sami government. (Discuss)

The Sami Parliament (Sámediggi in Sami, Sametinget in Swedish and Norwegian, Saamelaiskäräjät in Finnish) is the name given to the representative bodies for peoples of Sami heritage in Finland, Sweden and Norway. There is no single, unified Sami Parliament. Rather, each of the aforementioned three countries has set up their own separate legislatures for Sami people, even though the three Sami Parliaments often work together on cross-border issues. The Finnish Sami Parliament was set up in 1973, the Norwegian Sami Parliament (which has 43 members) in the 1989 and the Swedish Sami Parliament in 1992. In all three countries, they act as an institution of cultural autonomy for the indigenous Sami people.

Acest mesaj a fost modificat de Naga: 19th March 2006, 18:09

[TAPAS]

Bravo, ai dreptate!
Dar nu cumva mandria cu care tu si altii exhibati valorile culturale si de civilizatie maghiara in opozitia cu "lipsa" lor din partea romana / cine se lauda cu premii Nobel?/ , participarea maghiarilor la descoperirtea tuturor elementelor de civilizatie: gulas, chibrit, calculator, bomba, vitamina C, studiouri Fox, pix samd NU INSEAMNA TOT NATIONALISM? LOcul acelora care afirma superioritatea de cultura si de civilizatie a maghiarilor nu e tot in COCINA aceea in care, atit de elegantn ne-ai bagat? nu sunt si ei HANDICAPATI?

Sau nationalismul e negativ numai cand este afirmat de romani?

Draga Sorine, eu am explicat de ce am zis ce am zis, si handicapati sunt aia care nu pot depasi viziunea cretina a calaretilor migratori galopand prin pasurile carpatice pradant pasnicii tarani geto-daco-romani. Aici am introdus ideea celor 8 maghiari cu premiul Nobel. Nu in scopul de a face judecati de valoare la adresa romanilor. Sau orice realizare maghiara o vezi ca un atac ? Iar partea cu paprikasul si palinka a fost initial o gluma. Vad ca fost luata foarte in serios. Relaxati-va ! Vuia sau Parhon sau Eliade raman la locul lor si nu sunt cu nimic mai putin valorosi daca 8 unguri au premiul Nobel.

Nu am atacat in nici un fel cultura romana, nici nu am facut nici o afirmatie prin care sa caut sa minimizez realizarile compatriotilor mei. Dimpotriva, daca ai face un efort sa vezi cam ce zic eu de obicei ai vedea exact contrariul.

Insa pt ca am crescut langa copii maghiari in Transilvania am invatat sa-i pretuiesc si sa-i inteleg. Am trait 20 de ani in acesta atmosfera de excelenta intelegere interetnica si stiu ce vorbesc. Din acesta cauza, atacurile stupide la adresa lor ma deranjeaza. Si repet, romanii ardeleni au multe in comun cu maghiarii, mai multe poate, decat cu bucurestenii sau ilfovenii.

Acest mesaj a fost modificat de TAPAS: 19th March 2006, 18:06

[Naga]

Pentru ca sustinand tot felul de proiecte de legi propuse de unguri isi vad amenintata propria lor pozitie !! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Adica? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) Inteleg in cazul Frantei, pentru ca ei au probleme cu corsicanii si mai si adera la teoria unei singure natiuni, cea franceza, dar Germania nu are ce pozitie sa isi vada amenintata pentru ca nu are o minoritate etnica ne-germana mare si foarte concentrata intr-un anumit teritoriu. In Germania sunt multi emigranti turci si est-europeni, dar respectivii sunt veniti acolo recent, de cateva zeci de ani, si nu constituie majoritatea populatiei in nici o regiune a Germaniei. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nono.gif)
Exista o minoritate daneza in Germania, dar este mica (aproximativ 50.000 de persoane) si nu constituie grosul populatiei nici macar in regiunea pe care traiesc respectivii (Schleswig), asa ca ei nu constituie o problema pentru statul german.

Acest mesaj a fost modificat de Naga: 19th March 2006, 18:12

[sarkizian]

Tanti benedicte şi voi ceilanţi care doriţi autonomia - atavisme (IMG:style_emoticons/default/naughty.gif) ale acestei societăţi - nu aţi răspuns la întrebarea : ce dracu vă lipseşte acuma ?

Scumpo ! Cu ungurii tre sa fi foarte atent. Lor nu tre sa le lipseasca ceva ca sa se implice in zazanii,este felul lor de a fi.Ca drept dovada, cand austria nu a mai vrut sa le acorde suport pentru armata lor,46.000 dupa 1918 , s-au prezentat la moscova la congresul partidului comunist.Ca sa devi adeptul unui opartid,asa peste noapte si intr-un numar asa de mare, tre sa fi o natiune bolnava,in adevaratul sens al cuvantului. Degeaba vor uni sa faca pace cu ei,dupa pacea facuta, sunt instare sa sufle in paharul cu apa sa provoace alta furtuna.

Tanti naga pot să garantez că mulţi dintre ungurii cu care te lauzi matale sunt evrei, evrei care au emigrat din hungaria , şi asta nu cred de fericire !
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/roll2.gif) Ce să ma zic măi baieţas: @kukur ? Că mai făcut să zâmbesc ?

Da,multi sunt evrei si nu numai. Uitate la numele lor ,dar si la anii in care au facut inventii sau ce au facut ei,ai sa vezi ca dupa caderea imperiului,numarul oamenilor MARETI scade extrem de mult.
In vremea imperiilor, savantii, cercetatorii , oameni de arta, cautau sa se injghebeze intr-un imperiu pentru a avea conditii materiale sa-si puna in practica VISUL'.E normal sa fie asa,cum isi poate inchipui cineva ca un savant, ar fi avut protectie si bani,daca incerca sa faca ceva intr-o lume exploatata.
Ca sa INTRETI un numar asa de mare de cercetatori, artisti de valoare si capacitati, dovedeste cat de mult au exploatat aceti imperialisti.
Sper sa nu incercati acum sa sustineti ca i-ati format si ia-ti subventionat cu banii vostri !

[TAPAS]

In concluzie, cartman, Picard & co., care credeti voi ca ar fi interesul Germaniei in a apara principiul "statului national unitar" roman (asa cum il inteleg nationalistii romani) atata vreme cat germanii traiesc intr-un stat federal si caracterizat de diversitate lingvistica si culturala? Si de ce credeti ca neamtul va apleca urechea mai mult catre plangerile romanului decat catre cele ale secuiului, avand in vedere ca unul dintre partenerii economici cei mai apropiati ai neamtului este maghiarul, varul secuiului? Nu credeti ca voi cam faceti confuzie intre cum ati dori sa fie realitatea si cum este ea cu adevarat? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nono.gif) Stiu ca unele lucruri in viata nu sunt placute si sunt greu de acceptat, dar tactica strutului nu rezolva nimic.

Care este de fapt originea nazuintelor secuiesti spre autonomie. Ce statut au avut ei pe vremea vechiului regat maghiar, dinainte de Mohacs ? Cum au privit ei includerea Transilvaniei in regatul maghiar in a 2 jum a sec XIX ?

Analizand aceste intrebari poate o sa intelegem mai bine situatia actuala.

[Ayame]

Reactia mea relativ la poezia ta a fost generata de continutul "subversiv" al acesteia. Daca matale esti român atunci îmi pare rău pentru tine pentru că şi deoarece eşti în cel mai bun caz o tentativă de poet dacă nu unul ratat (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) . Sunt sigur că şi tu eşti conştient de asta.

Mica hungarie va deveni şi mai mică şi în final va dispare.

puisor, tare rasist/a esti, lasa ca o dispara romania dupa harta cu viitoarele inundatii, cu acesta ocazie poporul roman nu va mai avea timp sa urasca minoritatile..

[Naga]

Scumpo ! Cu ungurii tre sa fi foarte atent. Lor nu tre sa le lipseasca ceva ca sa se implice in zazanii,este felul lor de a fi.Ca drept dovada, cand austria nu a mai vrut sa le acorde suport pentru armata lor,46.000 dupa 1918 , s-au prezentat la moscova la congresul partidului comunist.Ca sa devi adeptul unui opartid,asa peste noapte si intr-un numar asa de mare, tre sa fi o natiune bolnava,in adevaratul sens al cuvantului. Degeaba vor uni sa faca pace cu ei,dupa pacea facuta, sunt instare sa sufle in paharul cu apa sa provoace alta furtuna.

Da,multi sunt evrei si nu numai. Uitate la numele lor ,dar si la anii in care au facut inventii sau ce au facut ei,ai sa vezi ca dupa caderea imperiului,numarul oamenilor MARETI scade extrem de mult.
In vremea imperiilor, savantii, cercetatorii , oameni de arta, cautau sa se injghebeze intr-un imperiu pentru a avea conditii materiale sa-si puna in practica VISUL'.E normal sa fie asa,cum isi poate inchipui cineva ca un savant, ar fi avut protectie si bani,daca incerca sa faca ceva intr-o lume exploatata.
Ca sa INTRETI un numar asa de mare de cercetatori, artisti de valoare si capacitati, dovedeste cat de mult au exploatat aceti imperialisti.
Sper sa nu incercati acum sa sustineti ca i-ati format si ia-ti subventionat cu banii vostri !

"Imperialisti", "exploatare"? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) Ce-i cu limbajul asta "comunist", sarkizian? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) Parca ii acuzai pe maghiari ca sunt bolsevici, nu? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Nu ne mai povestesti un pic basmul ala cu bazele rusesti din Harghita? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/naughty.gif)
Serios acum, multi dintre savantii aia mentionati in lista de pe wikipedia au avut varful carierei intr-o perioada cu mult dupa 1918. La fel, majoritatea premiilor Nobel, ungurii le-au castigat cu mult dupa 1918.
Iar in ce priveste originea evreiasca a unora dintre savantii maghiari, romanii cum de se mandresc cu Hermann Oberth, care numai etnic roman nu era la origine? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nono.gif) Iar pe pagina de pe wikipedia despre romanii celebri ai sa gasesti si acolo romani de o anumita etnie.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famous_Romanian_people

O chestie interesanta este includerea lui George Andrew Olah (Gyorgy Olah) pe ambele liste, si cea cu maghiari faimosi, dar si cea cu romani celebri.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_A._Olah

George Andrew Olah

George Andrew Olah (born May 22, 1927 as György Oláh) is a Hungarian-born American chemist. He was significant in stabilizing and in studying carbocations. He won a Nobel Prize in Chemistry in 1994. In 2005 he was awarded the Priestley Medal, the highest honor granted by the American Chemical Society.

Olah studied, then taught, at what is now Budapest University of Technology and Economics. As a result of the 1956 Hungarian Revolution, he and his family moved briefly to England and then to Canada where he joined Dow Chemical in Sarnia, Ontario. Olah's pioneering work on carbocations started during his eight years with Dow. In 1965 he returned to academia at Case Western Reserve University and then to University of Southern California in 1977. In 1971, Olah became a naturalized citizen of the United States.

Olah is currently a distinguished professor at the University of Southern California and the director of the Loker Hydrocarbon Research institute. In 2005, Olah wrote an essay promoting the methanol economy. His book The Methanol Economy will be published in March 2006.

[Elena_Din_Troia]

... Da,multi sunt evrei ...

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/photo.gif)
Nu am nici o problemă cu ei (vb. aici de evreii) dar voi ce sunteţi de fapt: unguri sau evrei ? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/naughty.gif)
Hai să vedem care nu sunt evrei ! Câţi mai rămân pe lista ? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/naughty.gif) Prea puţini ! Aşa zisa cultură maghiară s-a dezvoltat datorită membrilor altor etnii ! Contribuţia maghiarilor a fost prea mică ! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) Şi este explicabil ...

Acest mesaj a fost modificat de radumiki: 19th March 2006, 18:46

[Reclama]

In curand... autoevolution.ro

Teste, stiri, ghiduri, jurnale, forum si multe altele!